25-05-2002 23:02									#1
	AI using Probe Foils Tired of ads?

By editing the Alpha I have been able to induce AI use of Probe foils against my Sea Bases. I simply put the Probe Foil in the list of predesigned units, it was a pice of cake the only draw back is that the unit can have only 1 prerequisire tecnology as far as I know. So you can use either Doc Flex or Planetary Networks as the tec that gives Probe Foils. I think the AI uses the probe foil now because the AI no long is forced to design them from scratch. Designing a probe foil is just not "obvious" to the AI it seams. I have never had anything but a regular probe team used against me untill I added these has anyone else ever experienced a Prbe Foil under and un-altered alpha?

	25-05-2002 23:09									#2
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Thats pretty interesting. I guess I don't remember seeing an AI probe foil.
Good work.

	26-05-2002 00:09									#3
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I have never seen AI use any other chassis, reactor, ability or armor with a probe. Maybe if you turned over control of a unit with such a design, the AI would build it

	26-05-2002 03:30									#4
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Another place you can put it is Doc:Init because it has both Doc:Flex and Plan:nets in it's pre-req tree. The human could design it earlier, but the AI wont build it until it gets Doc:Init.

	26-05-2002 03:36									#5
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Well, if you put it there make it probe crusiers.

	26-05-2002 03:45									#6
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Ouch! Probe cruisers are awfully expensive pre-fusion. I almost never build them until after I have that.

	26-05-2002 07:06									#7
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Great work, Impaler. I applied the pre-gen unit to my alphax.txt promptly. I always thought the sea probe game was an aspect the AI was sorely missing out on. Now if only their terraforming paradigm was as easy to modify...

	26-05-2002 07:18									#8
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I don't play smac\x nearly as much as I use to a couple years ago and no PBEM for over a year or so, but usually will have an OCC going all the time which takes several months sometimes to complete since I only play a few turns every now and then. I had one over the winter in which I was Peacekeepers on a huge random planet and double blind research. The other factions were also random and it ended up being a 70% or so water planet. I was using probe cruisers alot to keep up with everyone tech wise with my one city...I'm not so good at OCC actually. The interesting thing is that I was in a war with Sven and he captured one of my probe cruisers with his marine detachment. After that it was a sad day cuz he started making them as I had him infiltrated. Anyways, just thought I'd share the info with u. I wish I had saved a turn from the game, but unfortunately I didn't.

	26-05-2002 08:11									#9
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Thanks stuntman! It appears to be as I guessed...AI will build the designs if they get a unit to work with.

Tell me, stuntman, did AI Sven actually use those cruiser probes properly?

PS. What are the chances of boarding and capturing a probe naval vessel? I wouldn't have thought that possible!

	26-05-2002 08:27									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Mongoose Ouch! Probe cruisers are awfully expensive pre-fusion. I almost never build them until after I have that.

Really? Well, after I have cruisers I never build probe foils. The movement bonus is just huge to me. Moving six sometimes means you can actually move from a base to an enemy base in one turn. Fungus brings foils to a dead stop, cruisers can actually move through them to get somewhere. I just love them.

	26-05-2002 09:12									#11
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Well some of the Sven built probe cruisers just sorta wondered around in sight of my base and\or units so that I could pick them off. I did have defense probes in my city to protect from destroying my buildings and any tech advantage I had, so none actually attacked my defensive probes. The one thing Sven did do is bribe one of my trawlers in an energy park I had built. After that the Pirate trawlers started showing up as well.

I did finally end up winning the game by transcending, but it took awhile...2389 or something like that which is not really that great with Peacekeepers. It was a fun game for SP though as Sven and Yang got in a PB battle(3-4 each way) in the early 2300's or so and I did see Sven using his probe cruisers on Yang....some even to mind control Hive sea bases.

I've also tried games that I just stockpiled energy for 50 turns and then started playing to give AI a head start and also get some Secret Projects.
Surprisingly with an advantageous starting location many of the factions can play quite well with a lead. One of these games Dee had some size 50 bases and bunches of sats including ODP"s. That game Dee got Supreme Leader or I'm not sure how the AI would have played from then on....she had the Cloning Vats so the bases would have kept growing. I was playing as Roze and had a pact, but she had enough votes even if I had voted against her.

	26-05-2002 11:02									#12
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I've actually used that "AI builds units if it get's design" feature in scenerios, by adding a unit to a Factions unit workshop.

I've never heard of it being achieved by Marine Detachment before, but I've seen the AI probe one of my clean rovers then start mass producing them (albiet slowly, because the AI didn't learn about the upgrading from shell stage of building clean units...)

	31-05-2002 09:14									#13
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I can confirm Stuntman's experience in my most recent game. I also happened to be Lal and Sven attacked one of my Probe Cruisers and captured it with marine detachment. He never started producing them en masse though; I think he used the captured one and that was it. I had Roze in a submissive pact and I built a probe foil for her, turned it over to her control, and she did start producing them en masse. When I later gave her an algorithmic Fusion Probe Cruiser, she started building those too. She was great at harrassing my enemies' sea bases.

Impaler actually got me inspired to put Probe Foils, Probe Cruisers, Sky Colony Pods, "Police Citizens" (Scouts with non-lethal methods), and "Clean Guards" (Synthmetal Garrisons with clean reactors) all in the pre-design list. I've never seen the AI use these two special abilities, and wonder if they show up in the pre-designed unit list if it'll experiment. Anyway, having modified the alphax.txt, I will start a new game and note how often, if at all, these experimental units are utilitized by the AI.

	31-05-2002 18:32									#14
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The AI definitely knows what to do with "sea probes" if they have any. In one of my games I gifted Morgan (who was a submissive pact mate) with some probe cruisers and tons of cash. He was close to Yang. Within a dozen or so turns, Morgan used the cruiser probes to subvert all of Yang's sea bases.

Petek