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Drago Sinio
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New Jersey, USA
Oct 1999
time: 05:19
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The Green Maritime Pod Strategy is from an old post, by a poster who's name I do not recall. If anyone remebers who did, please post! I ran across a print out of it the other day and decided to try a game. I thought some newer players might like to try the strategy, or some older ones might like to try it again, as I did.
I played basic SMAC, but it works just as well in SMAX.
The strategy is to build an empath navy, and pop all the floating pods, while capturing as much wildlife as possible.
You play a green faction, I chose the Gaians.
You beeline for planetary networks to get probes, Doctrine Flexibility to get foils, Doctrine Iniative for the MARITIME CONTROL CENTER and cruisers, Centauri Empathy for Empath Song and Green SE.
As soon as you can, build some probe foils. Their mission is to scout for pods, (but not pop them yet ) and make contact with all the other factions for tech trading, stealing.
Switch to Green , as soon as you can.
When you get Doctrine Iniative, immediately build 3 or 4 cheapest possible cruisers, upgrading to Empath when you can. And of course build the MARITIME CONTROL CENTER asap.
You MUST have a positive Planet Rating for this to work, the higher the better.
Okay, so now you have a Positive Planet Rating, a lot of the oceans explored, and your Empath Cruisers are ready to go.
Now what do you do?
Starting near an enemies territory, and working away from your own, start popping the floating pods with your E Cruisers.
MAKE SURE you have plenty of movement points left before you pop a pod, so you can run away if that seems prudent. PATIENCE will produce the best results. When you capture an iod, use any captured worms aboard to pop the land pods in unexplored territory and islands. Then use the IOD's and Cruisers in pairs, with the IOD popping the pod, and the Cruiser attacking any natives that pop out.
Before long, you will build up a large , experienced native force, get lots of techs from the AA's you find, have a ton of energy credits, free builds, and whatever other good stuff you can get from the pods. Send the AA's home aboard an IOD with a cruiser escort- you will lose some if you arent very careful.
The idea is to beat all the other factions to the pods, and the goodies within. I usually save the AA's until I have the Hunter Seeker , and then hook them up all at once to the network nodes to get a huge tech lead. That way you can begin the "conquer" phase with superior weapons, that the enemy cant steal from you.
In the game I am playing on a standard sized earth like planet, I got 8 AA's, 14 worms (2 of them DEMON BOILS!), 7 Iods and countless free builds, unity rovers etc. by year 2262.
I have popped all the pods, and am about to take on the other three powerfula factions- Miriam, Santiago and the Hive. I have Tachyon weapons, the bad guys have Missiles and Chaos.
Wait til' Miriam gets suddenly attacked from all sides by Worms, Elite Tachy Marines and the 12 Tachy Jets I am building now. !!
She has been threatening me all game, being my immediate neighbor, and her time has come.
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Marid Audran
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Salt Lake City, Utah
May 2001
time: 22:19
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Sounds like a blast, Drago. Usually in-game I have at least one base designated as my "Mind Worm Institute," with a Biology Lab, Centauri Preserve, Brood Pit, etc, as the facs become available, to churn out worms. I recall how useful it was as Cha Dawn one time to capture Isles of the Deep filled with pre-boil or boil worms in the early game and the use it to explore, assist, or assault as needed. Later on, capturing one of those aggravated eco-damage pops can yield 10+ Mature/Demon Boil mind worms for your psi forces, a lot of fun! 
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Drago Sinio
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New Jersey, USA
Oct 1999
time: 05:19
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Marid A, Yes, it is a fun way to start out a game, a nice change of pace from my usual style. Very flexible too, you can switch to whatever style you like after all the pods are popped.
The Worms and Marines made quick work of Miriam, I took four of her bases within five turns, and she came looking for a truce. So I took the truce, rested my troops for a few turns to repair them, and then took three more bases! Then she begs for a truce and a peace treaty. So I gave it to her and turned on the Hive. I took three of his bases in a one turn surprise attack! He asked for a truce, which I gave to him. Then a few turns later he sneak attacked me, and I sacked his capitol and two other nearby large bases. So now he wants peace again.
End result is with the (independent) worms and IOD's, plus a few marines and 12 Tachy Needles, I added about 6 large bases (total of four SP's) and a bunch of little bases to my empire. I homed my needles and marines to the captured bases, so my core bases arent saddled with the support.
The strategy works very well for a builder type player, because early in the game you are at peace with everyone, most of your military are independent captured natives that you neither build nor support, and those popped pods give you free builds and a ton of credits for rush building infrastructure. I had no battles at all, other than with the natives, until after I had popped all the pods and built up all the infrastructure in my core bases. I even loaned money to pretty much all the other factions, I had so much of it.
The only other powerful faction left at this point is Santiago. She hasnt bothered me, so I think I will leave her alone for now and let her gnaw on the bones of Miriam's and Yang's holdings for a while, and do some more infrastructure builds.
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PhoenixPhlame73
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San Antonio, Texas
Apr 2002
time: 23:19
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My only question for you is something that i probably should know but was never quite clear on : Can a human controlled native life-form capture an enemy base, or are regular units required for this?
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Mongoose
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Harrisburg,PA USA
Apr 1999
time: 00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixPhlame73
My only question for you is something that i probably should know but was never quite clear on : Can a human controlled native life-form capture an enemy base, or are regular units required for this? |
Certainly they can!
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Grail Quest
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BC, Canada
Mar 2002
time: 05:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Straybow
Usually hit them with jets then capture by cruiser. Although they are usually adjacent to land and can be attacked by amphib units I just don't built amphib unless it's too inconvenient to take a base any other way. |
It's too bad that amphibious troops appear to be for a very specific situation: coastal bases.
There was only one game in which I build Amphibious Rovers, but they did turn out quite handily. Basically, I used them against coastal bases which cannot be taken by sea vessels (this is pre-air power). Landing a unit takes 1 attack, so instead of landing, I sail up, hit the base hard, then sail away if I have to. The units are moved to safety so they can repair on the ship. If the base is rendered defenseless, I take it with the weakest rover in the stack so that it is instantly repaired. Otherwise, my cruiser sails in, then the transport, and I dig in at that base and use it as my beachhead.
I think amphibious troops ought to be usable against other ships. If I have a stack of marines in my transport, and I can rush up to a ship or IOD or whatever, I feel they ought to be able to launch an attack, and/or defend against an attack.
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Mongoose
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Harrisburg,PA USA
Apr 1999
time: 00:19
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It's almost impossible to defend an energy park against a human opponent. A couple of suicide missile choppers can just lay it waste.
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Mongoose
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Harrisburg,PA USA
Apr 1999
time: 00:19
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Missile Choppers are more lethal than impact when self destructed.
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Mongoose
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Harrisburg,PA USA
Apr 1999
time: 00:19
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Chop 'til you're out of fuel, then SD. Nice thread about it at CGN.
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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:19
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quote:
Originally posted by M@ni@c
Indeed. There is a countermeasure for most of all these smart tricks. For example, just patrol your shores and the "transport full of marines" is redundant as well.
Btw, I'm wondering, do people use to strategy to surround their entire continent with sea bases, as is suggested in Vel's guide. I've never yet encountered it in my games (well yes one time, but I think that was just because he lacked room to expand - he was surrounded by me :-), but then again, I haven't yet played that many MPs. |
I used to do this in SP, but against another human player sea bases are too vulnerable. I'll still place one as an airbase sometimes, but unless you have certain air superiority these bases can be turned against you quickly. Against the AI of course they provide you with a huge buffer against incursion, as well as a greatly extended reach for your air force, at a cost of several usually marginally productive bases.
I use a lot of crawlers, but I've taken to only using them in the base radius. This gives me two advantages vs a more typical crawler park. Firstly, I can replace any lost crawler with a worker immediately. Secondly, I can very easily defend my crawlers with an interceptor in my base. By dense packing my bases (2x2 on the diagonals) I can build a wall around my empire of AAA infantry backed up with numerous interceptors. Attacks against my productive area are difficult, with every square occupied and under the influence of friendly sensors. Eventually my whole perimiter is backed up with flechettes as well.
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johndmuller
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Capitol Hill, Colony of DC
Feb 2001
time: 00:19
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I share the feeling that sea bases are more vulnerable than land but I wonder if the logic backs that up too or is it just the result of the pitiful sea bases that the AI often scatters all over.
Intrinsically, the sea base itself is no weaker than a land base (unless the underlying terrain adds something to it and you make a point of foresting your base plot first).
Perhaps we get the feeling that sea bases are vulnerable because they can be attacked by ships from any direction from pretty far away. But at the same time, we say that ships are for s#&% and are hardly worth having, so why should we be afraid of them? As far as long distance goes, aircraft and missiles can attack you from further away and with just as little warning.
You can put all the same defensive facilities in a sea base and stock it with all the same kind of units (for what it's worth, you can even put ships in a sea base, which you can't always do in a land base  ) so as far as air defense goes, they are pretty much the same as land bases as far as withstanding the attacks.
You can't put down a sensor before you build your sea base, but you can have a sensor within range on a convenient piece of land or you can protect it with a GeoSync Survey pod if you get that far into the tree.
If you have a cruiser transport or two in the right place(s), you can reinforce from/to the sea base nearly as quickly and easily as a land base.
So what's the big weakness?
I know, if you put a lone sea base in the middle of the ocean all by itself, you don't have anything nearby to help protect it with, but that would be just as true in the middle of nowhere on land too.
The main drawback to sea bases is the low min production, but if you put your sea base close enough to land to have a borehole or two and/or you pick its original location because there are a couple of min specials in the base production area, you are covered there as well.
If you are going to put a sea base far out in the ocean, it is probably because it is an absolutely fantastic production area full of specials or because it is to be used as a relay point for choppers so that they can move around without having to take a damage hit. Similarly, you might also want it as a staging area for drop units if you otherwise can't get close enough to the enemy (for this purpose it would be helpful, but not essential, to have an adjacent island (with a borehole) to land drop units on). If you have one of these bases, it is worth sending out a the few extra patrols to keep people from sneaking up on you.
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Drago Sinio
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New Jersey, USA
Oct 1999
time: 05:19
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"Unit defensive abilities don't allow you to really counter the ultra mobile forces ie.marine attacks or ship attacks as you can on land. "
On the other hand, an artillery unit does have a built in advantage against a ship, as opposed to a land based attacker, does it not? And also there are generally fewer units in your opponents force that are even capable of attacking a sea base at all. What they are most vulnerable to is Air Attack, and you can build your defender with AAA special ability to counter, or station an interceptor there. Or Both.
Also in terms of Naval Power, the more "ports" you have,(bases with access to the ocean) the more ships you can build. The More Ships you have, the more you are able to control the sea. If you control the sea, your enemy has a much more difficult time getting any where near you in the first place.
The biggest weakness of a seabase is its lack of minerals, and careful placement of the base, or a few crawlers mining in a protected area can fix that.
(And thanks for remembering Scott Johnson as the "inventor" of the Green Maritime Pod" strategy. )
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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:19
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I have to disagree somewhat about the defensibility of sea bases. In addition to the several reasons given above for why sea bases are less defensible, I have a few more.
1) They are usually more vulnerable to approach than land bases, as they are usually spread farther apart, farther afield, and have fewer (but more expensive) units in and around the base, and with no ZOCs, these units are usually powerless to keep the enemy's fast units from assaulting the base before any reinforcements can be built or deployed.
2) There is no terrain (other than possible sea fungus, or well positioned islands) which forces approaching troops through a bottleneck and / or to attack a particular square which is more defensible. On land for instance I can build a bunker on a rocky square and force the enemy through that point (assuming that I've chosen the right point), often at great cost.
3) The great speed with which the dominant weapons systems on the sea (ships and aircraft) work, the usual lack of means to slow them by ZOC blocking or terrain add up to a situation where your chances of detecting and reacting to an enemy approach in time to make a big difference are not very good. Sea base battles tend to be 'come as you are' type battles. If you had a strong force based in and around the sea base, you will probably be able to both detect and counter an enemy threat. If your base is only staffed by a couple of units, you may not have any warning of an attack, and even if you do get a turn's notice you will be hard pressed to move enough troops into the base quickly enough to make it viable defensively.
With sea bases IMO the best defense is a good offense. I usually wait until air power to build sea bases (if I do at all), because with a stack of planes large enough to assure local superiority your sea bases are probably at least as defensible as your land bases (moreso if drop troops are a threat). This is expensive however, and changes the base from a cog in your economy into a strategic investment. This is how I tend to use my sea bases, as air bases to aid my power projection against far-flung enemies, and sometimes as patrol bases to secure plenty of warning should the enemy approach from my flank or rear.
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Xian
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The above posts are excactly why i try to be as peaceful as possible in my single player games. War isnt even fun in the game for me |-]
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26-05-2002 04:03
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