26-05-2002 21:53									#1
	Our 1640AD Map Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

First, let me say that my delays in getting these posted were unavoidable. Matters of State intruded.

To wit: The semi-annual migration of the Presidential Mum and Dad has been completed and those two Honorable Ancient Ones have departed along their traditional pursuit of Endlessl Nice Weather. They were entertained in the Presidential House with delectable meals, respectful conversation, unusual books and long bouts of CNN (none of which, by the way, were provided at Public Apolyton expense)! Surprisingly, Number 1 Son even gained some Parental credit for having been elected your President. Wonders never cease!

It's hard for me to shrink graphics with my pathetic Paint program (suggestions for better programs hereby solicited), but here goes:

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	26-05-2002 21:56									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

HomeIsland1640:

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	26-05-2002 21:58									#3
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2ndIsland1640:

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	26-05-2002 22:00									#4
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3rdIsland1640:

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	26-05-2002 22:01									#5
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ConqueredLand1640:

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	26-05-2002 22:02									#6
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Outposts1:

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	26-05-2002 22:04									#7
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Outposts2:

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	26-05-2002 22:05									#8
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Outposts3:

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	26-05-2002 22:06									#9
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Carthaginia:

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	26-05-2002 22:07									#10
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East of Heliopolis:

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	26-05-2002 22:11									#11
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Whew!

Don't expect this every week. It won't change much.

	27-05-2002 03:34									#12
	nice nice Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

thx for all those lovely screenshots

quote: It's hard for me to shrink graphics with my pathetic Paint program (suggestions for better programs hereby solicited), but here goes:

some hints to help you out:

• When making the screenshots you probably use a keyboard, and all those little buttons have those strange signs on them...one you already figured out(it says Print Screen(or something like that)) Now take a look around and see if you find the X-button (you can recognise it because it's marked with a big X) and hit it when playing--> look what happens you just zoomed out...don't panic you can zoom in by hitting the button with this funny sign on it 'Z'.
  
• a tool good enough to do the cut/past work is just plain old MSpaint,simple as hell and good enough for the job(and if you use 2 windows you can automate it a little)
  

(sorry just could not help it )

quote: Don't expect this every week. It won't change much.

Why not??I did

Shade

	27-05-2002 04:06									#13
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Can I make a couple of suggestions to the cityplanner?

First of all, 2 new city's on island 2 and the island north of it, you should never waste a whale.

The 2 islands north of phily look good also for naval bases.

The island south of island 3 same thing.

And a city out of Dortmund with gold and fish

As we are in commie now and going towards naval supriority we need as much of these bases as we can get.
And as we have no corruption anymore this will also benifit our trade and sience.

Just a thought.

	27-05-2002 04:11									#14
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We should fill all available space with cities, so that we can utilize all of our tiles to maximum effect.

	28-05-2002 03:43									#15
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I'm on Skywalker. I'm a total newbie to this form of game but the space seems to have been missused somewhat. It's 1640 now so it's starting to get late but that outpost Babar is close to a few good spots like the one down at the coast, left to the whale.... Are we building Engineers to get there?

	28-05-2002 03:52									#16
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

maybe we should have an introductionnary task for our newcommers--> reading our history, we have been very bussy and really active(remember also this is at Deity--> less turns, and 1 other word happiness)

Babar wasn't even build by us(I bribed it from the Babylonians as revenge for the killing of our noble elephant )

Shade

	28-05-2002 04:00									#17
	Increase Your PM Length

Oh well. I've been here for 20 minutes and that Shade character is slapping me on the fingers all the time

It was just a question. The 2nd Island with Ormond, Rivertown and Nova Spania is poorly planned though. There should be two more cities on that island if they where planner right from the beginning. I hope the city planner has been beheaded for his por work

	28-05-2002 11:21									#18
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Don't worry Kropotkin - that's just shade's way of saying;

"Hey! Welcome. I value your input very much. Please come and give us more of your suggestions."

Honestly, Kropotkin, we've had a lot of different opinions floating around recently (lotsa new members), and perhaps it's time we changed our ways a bit.

Keep posting your ideas - at the moment we are voting for a new "High Council" (see my "All important decisions to date" for more info on these guys) and no play will be done for a little while. Make sure your ideas are heard when the new Ministers put up polls asking for what we should do It's up to all of us to decide - maybe a poll somewhere down the line?

VP,
MrWIA.

	28-05-2002 16:06									#19
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin Oh well. I've been here for 20 minutes and that Shade character is slapping me on the fingers all the time

Don't worry about it,I'm not slapping just trying to explain as much as possible in the minimum possible lines.

consider it as MWIA says:

quote: "Hey! Welcome. I value your input very much. Please come and give us more of your suggestions."

to say it officially=> Welcome in our little empire

Shade(never mind my rants--> they give me chill-pills if it gets to bad )

	28-05-2002 18:49									#20
	Re: nice nice Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by shade some hints to help you out: When making the screenshots you probably use a keyboard, and all those little buttons have those strange signs on them...one you already figured out(it says Print Screen(or something like that)) Now take a look around and see if you find the X-button (you can recognise it because it's marked with a big X) and hit it when playing--> look what happens you just zoomed out...don't panic you can zoom in by hitting the button with this funny sign on it 'Z'. a tool good enough to do the cut/past work is just plain old MSpaint,simple as hell and good enough for the job(and if you use 2 windows you can automate it a little) (sorry just could not help it )

Forgot to take your "chill-pills" again, didn't you?

I'm using MSPaint. The problem is the the 600x600 pixel maximum allowed by Apolytonia is way too small for a decent whole map picture.

quote: Why not??I did

The known world was a lot smaller then.

	28-05-2002 18:57									#21
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I agree that it is past time to take advantage of some of the superb city-sites that have been identified in past Imperial Expansion polls. Most of our outpost cities have Engineers improving the local terrain for productivity and food increases. Soon, they will be available to establish new cities. We also have some Engineers in around older cities that have done about all they can there. It's time for them to move on.

	28-05-2002 20:51									#22
	Increase Your PM Length

Hmm are you sure about that? It looks on the picture (but i supose you know) that much around the older cities are plains that needs to be turn into grassland. I'd think that there is a need for much work still. Also, and that's even more important, there's few mines around...

	28-05-2002 21:41									#23
	Inflate your Upload Space

Population is not a problem for us; we seem well over the other civs on that. So I don't support turning plains in grassland. We need the shield production from the plains terrain squares. Now, in that regard, We have about 6 Engineers turning grassland into hills, so that we can mine them. As we gain in mines, we can also emphasize grassland for food to balance things out.

We have 3 size 8 cities, and 5 size 7 ones. That puts us well ahead of any other civ. In a few turns (the Engineers have been busy), we should have another 6 mines with more to come.

I fully agree that our lack of shield productivity has held us back in some ways, but the Citizens wanted War and War we have (quite successfully). And War has been productive, too. We have Wonders we would not have had, and we have additional cities and trade routes. But we are catching up to the productivity situation. We remain first in Manufactured goods, and that is a very critical demographic. Some of the others seem low only because our population is so large.

	28-05-2002 22:44									#24
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear Population is not a problem for us; we seem well over the other civs on that. So I don't support turning plains in grassland. We need the shield production from the plains terrain squares.

OK : irrigated plain is good for our play, grassland is usefull for population growth, but we need some shields.

quote: Originally posted by cavebear Now, in that regard, We have about 6 Engineers turning grassland into hills, so that we can mine them. As we gain in mines, we can also emphasize grassland for food to balance things out.

Transforming grassland into hills is a long way, and after mining then with manufactures, beware the early pollution !
I prefer natural forest for shields : with next railroads, each forest tile will produce 3 shields.

	28-05-2002 22:48									#25
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by cavebear I fully agree that our lack of shield productivity has held us back in some ways, ...

What lack of shields ?
Our President knows that we are the first in Mfg goods, according the sceenshot he posted !
We are late in GNP and annual income !

	28-05-2002 23:43									#26
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin The 2nd Island with Ormond, Rivertown and Nova Spania is poorly planned though. There should be two more cities on that island if they where planner right from the beginning. I hope the city planner has been beheaded for his por work

Rivertown was an advanced tribe, so of course it was placed poorly. It was our first city on the island, the others were added to fill in the usable space and use the specials. Another city spot to the south (with silk) was never voted a priority over other spots that have since been settled (mostly whale-rich).

	29-05-2002 00:02									#27
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quote: Originally posted by JCP OK : irrigated plain is good for our play, grassland is usefull for population growth, but we need some shields.

That's why I keep the plains around, for the shields.

quote: Transforming grassland into hills is a long way, and after mining then with manufactures, beware the early pollution !

The Engineers work pretty quickly. Grassland becomes hills directly by Engineer transformation. Then we mine.

quote: I prefer natural forest for shields : with next railroads, each forest tile will produce 3 shields.

Are you sure about that? Maybe I've missed something here.

	29-05-2002 00:08									#28
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with railroads->50% increase->3 shields

	29-05-2002 00:24									#29
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Could someone else please confirm that please? I'm pretty sure that I have run RR though Forest before but I cannot recall seeing 3 shields from it. But if it is true, I need to know. I won't pass up any advantage we can gain!

Anyone?

	29-05-2002 00:38									#30
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About the plains or grassland issue:
I prefeer to have grasslands and hills only as the goal of my engineering operations. By turning plains into grassland fewer people can keep the city with food and futher land can be transformed into hills w. mines. Overall production gets higher and there's a population surplus for research and commerce as well as production.

Not until the peasant class (as we all know a reactionary class) is minimized can true communism be introduced as decribed in Das Kapital!