27-05-2002 08:17									#1
	A couple of questions about the turnless mode Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The IGN PTW preview states the following:

quote: The more intriguing alternative is a turnless, "real-time" option. An individual turn runs on a real time clock and each individual unit moved must not be moved again until the length of a turn has passed. The length of each turn is proportional to the number of cities and units present in the world. As you advance through time and have more units to manage, you have more time between turns.

There you have it. So its basically like a conventional turn-based game, but with a time limit. Lets call it speed Civ. But, I wonder, can we ajust the speed of the game like in RTS games? Is there a pause button? Does the game pause at the end of each turn or is it continuous?

	28-05-2002 01:17									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

If possible, you should try to download the video, it shows turnless mode. Thare is no automatic pause at the end of each turn. Here's a descritpion of what happens in the video :
J. Morris founds Washington 4000 BC, and makes his worker and scout auto-explore : they both move normally (i.e 1 tile for the worker, 2 tiles for the scout, then they both stop). Then, JM enters Washington city screen, and modifies production. While he was doing this, the "turn" has ended, and we see the units moving automatically while he is in the city screen. Again, they move for 1 or 2 tiles and stop, waiting for the turn to end.

I think it will be possible to pause the game, as in any RTS. I heard the speed will depend of the number of units and cities. I'm not sure if it will be possible for the player to make it faster or slower though.

	28-05-2002 01:52									#3
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But will the time limit be the same for all players? Meaning:
If I have many cities and units, do I get more time or will the players with less units / cities have the same amount of time as the further developed ones (and therefore have relatively more time to think and react)?

	28-05-2002 02:48									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor If possible, you should try to download the video, it shows turnless mode. Thare is no automatic pause at the end of each turn. Here's a descritpion of what happens in the video : J. Morris founds Washington 4000 BC, and makes his worker and scout auto-explore : they both move normally (i.e 1 tile for the worker, 2 tiles for the scout, then they both stop). Then, JM enters Washington city screen, and modifies production. While he was doing this, the "turn" has ended, and we see the units moving automatically while he is in the city screen. Again, they move for 1 or 2 tiles and stop, waiting for the turn to end. I think it will be possible to pause the game, as in any RTS. I heard the speed will depend of the number of units and cities. I'm not sure if it will be possible for the player to make it faster or slower though.

I see... I checked out the video before, but I obviously missed some details. Thanks for pointing them out for me!

	28-05-2002 02:58									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Lucilla [...] If I have many cities and units, do I get more time or will the players with less units / cities have the same amount of time as the further developed ones (and therefore have relatively more time to think and react)?

If the IGN preview is correct, then the player with 20 cities should have more time on his or her hands than the player with 10 cities.

	28-05-2002 03:14									#6
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I don't see how it's possible, given that everybody plays at the same time (hey, that's the meaning of turnless ).
Maybe there will be "blank" spots for the players who have less things to do : the total turn lasts 30 seconds, but he should only get 15 seconds, then he can't do anything for the last 15 seconds.
I don't think so, it sounds boring. Plus, Firaxians showed a strong will to balance things between advanced and retarded Civs (research cap, tech devaluation...), so I think everybody will have the same time per turn. Just think of more time for the weak gives him a chance to come back as a power.

	28-05-2002 04:24									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Lucilla But will the time limit be the same for all players? Meaning: If I have many cities and units, do I get more time or will the players with less units / cities have the same amount of time as the further developed ones (and therefore have relatively more time to think and react)?

Seems like a good balancer to me

	28-05-2002 05:30									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Hope bigger civs get more time, it's **** having your turn end in the middle of a big well planned attack (possibly screwing the whole plan up).

	28-05-2002 05:40									#9
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I wonder whether or not attacks will be made faster, as that can eat up time. Or will everyone just turn off animations to save time? That would suck, hopefully animations don't count as time against you.

	28-05-2002 06:38									#10
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actually, I'm kind of hoping in the multiplayer set up there will be a 'standardized' time you can set (i.e. 30 seconds per turn regardless of cities). I'm not looking forward for it taking 3 hours to move out of an age.

	28-05-2002 11:22									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I don't see how it's possible, given that everybody plays at the same time (hey, that's the meaning of turnless ).

Not necessarily: everybody plays at the same time if you choose to play a "turnless/simultaneous turns" type of game. And I can see how that could be problematic, especially in a big game. But I think that the turnless mode wasn't meant for big and long games, it was meant for short games. I am also assuming that a turnless you go/I go type of game will also be an option. It's all speculation, of course!

	28-05-2002 16:26									#12
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It would be best if you could switch modes during the game, so for example you could start the game of in turnless or simul, but then swap to turn based if you feel the need, without having to restart the game.

	28-05-2002 16:48									#13
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

While I like the fast speed of turnless mode, I will clearly not be playing it much. PBEM and occasional normal game be it.

Will you guys play turnless or normal?

	28-05-2002 21:41									#14
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Solver :
I only have one friend who plays Civ with me (LAN) and he is reaaaaaly long during his turn. I think I'll play turnless if there is a way to make it slower.

Dr Fell :
I think the duration of the turn will depend either of the total number of cities / units, or of the number of cities/units of the best player. At most, the weak will have more time, but I don't think the strong will have less time.

Mikhail :
I disagree with you. It would be boring if the turns last 30 seconds at the very beginning of the game when you have nothing to do, and you won't be able to do anything right in the modern era with only 30 seconds.

Overall, I'm really convinced by turnless mode. I almost don't play RTS because it's a clickfest at the end of a game, and you can't do anything right. I think Civ3 turnless mode is a breakthrough in real time strategy : you have some time to act, even when you must manage a huge empire. I think many games will resue turnless mode in the future, it's far better than pure real time.

	29-05-2002 08:47									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Solver While I like the fast speed of turnless mode, I will clearly not be playing it much. PBEM and occasional normal game be it. Will you guys play turnless or normal?

I agree that Civ is best played on standard, large or huge maps. Unfortunately, those games take eons to finish. Moreover, I don't seem to be able to control myself when playing one of those big games. I can't bring myself to play, say, one hour per week: when I play, it's minimum 4 or 5 hours. That damn one more turn effect... And, really, I don't have that much free time at the moment. Too busy. So I welcome the new options
introduced in PTW, options like turnless mode: they promise shorter games, a quick fix for busy gamers. Will I play turnless? Of course... if its any fun! BTW, as any of you tried the tiny maps? How long lasts a typical game on a tiny map?

	29-05-2002 10:47									#16
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I doubt I'll play turnless, just doesn't sound appealing to me. If I wanted to play RTS I'd play StarCraft. I especially dislike the idea becuase turn-based are meant to be played slowly and deliberately (the way I see it), they have a whole different feel from RTS and while i like both kinds of games, i doubt i will play a hybrid.....

	29-05-2002 11:11									#17
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quote: Originally posted by PhoenixPhlame73 I doubt I'll play turnless, just doesn't sound appealing to me. If I wanted to play RTS I'd play StarCraft. I especially dislike the idea becuase turn-based are meant to be played slowly and deliberately (the way I see it), they have a whole different feel from RTS and while i like both kinds of games, i doubt i will play a hybrid.....

Have you ever tried EU2? I think it could change your mind on RTS's. It's a RTS and it plays slowly and deliberately, the way you like'em!

	29-05-2002 12:04									#18
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Nope I've never tried that game, nor did I mean to imply that I don't like RTSs, I was just saying that I bought this game for a turn-based play, not RTS, which I think all will agree has at least a slightly different feel.

I'll make a note to myself to try out EU2 though......

~~PP73~~

	29-05-2002 16:13									#19
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This all gets me really thinking on what will the percentage of Standard to turnless MP games played. I still hope the standard modes will dominate.

	29-05-2002 18:27									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Solver While I like the fast speed of turnless mode, I will clearly not be playing it much. PBEM and occasional normal game be it. Will you guys play turnless or normal?

hi ,

depending on what the turnless option will be , a lot of people will play it

when its something similar then lets say C & C , tiberian sun , firestorm , yes a lot of people shall like it , ....

have a nice day

	30-05-2002 18:24									#21
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I am really liking the sounds of things with the turnless mode. I think it will be just the thing to speed up those games that used to take 10 hours, but without turning it into a clickfest like most RTS games are.