17-05-2001 23:01									#1
	CivIII Feature I Really Like + Question Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

One thing I really like (among many) that I've seen in the CivIII screen-captures is that in addition to the fog of war the game also implements the visual range of a unit.

It will be nice to be able to instantly see which parts of the map you haven't been to in a while and maybe should and also where the best place for a lookout unit is.

I've read all the CivIII articles/previews, but was there any mention of whether an increase in altitude by being on a hill/mountain will improve the visual range of units?

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Your Obedient Serpent

	18-05-2001 09:27									#3
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well, godot, you don't seem to have played ctp: fog of wr is a great feature, but something even civ2 should have had for its time.

	18-05-2001 19:36									#4
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RK, you are correct.

I've only joined the Civ parade a few weeks ago when I decided to get CivII.

I WAS a little surprised not to see the visual range of units represented, because I've played quite a few RTS games and most had it.

I guess I could have phrased it as, "It's about time", but for me it hasn't been a long wait.

	19-05-2001 09:07									#6
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Still, actual fog of war (as in SMAC or CtP) is nice, and will probably be included.

	18-05-2001 22:57									#7
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Fog of war is excellent. Increasing the visual range of a unit by standing it on a mountain when each tile is many miles across is dubious.

	18-05-2001 23:21									#8
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Good point Grumbold. However, I think it unwise to limit game changes to only those that would be realistic if the game was extrapolated to real life. Many things in the game are unrealistic and, although it can be carried too far, I prefer improvements to playability over slavishness (is that really a word?) to "reality".

SERAPIS: I do realize Civ is not an RTS, but because I've haven't played a turn-based game since the original SimCity (dang, did I just date myself?) I didn't have anything to compare the Fog of War feature to except the RTS games I've played. Geez am I sensitive or what!

	19-05-2001 00:27									#9
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I have played CTP so I have experienced Fog of War in a turn-based game and I agree that it is a feature that CivIII will benefit from. I mean, let's face it, I shouldn't be allowed to know what's on the other side of the world unless I have people or facilities over there.

As for the changing vision radius as units move onto different terrain types, that's a little different. Personally, I can see some wonderful applications of a feature like that. The strategic depth would be illustrated by thoughts like this: "Do I go here so that I can see really far but be seen by everyone else or do I go here so that I can't be seen, but I can't see very far." Unfortunately, while the depth is nice, I can just imagine the complexity added by such a feature. I already have to consider military bonuses and movement factors when I decide where to go, I don't want to have to take into account the vision factor too. If you ask me, if we're going to have a unit's vision be affected by the terrain, then let it be affected by mountains and nothing else.

P.S. Did anyone understand all of that.

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The Electronic Hobbit