27-05-2002 23:44									#1
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With the recent sucesses that we've had, we now have more techs to plan for and work with. In the last session, we researched:

Feudalism
Navigation
Physics

and we are currently half done with University. Other civs techs that we don't have are:

Bridge Building (Egypt, India, Rome, America)
Economics (Egypt, America)
Medicine (Egypt, America)

Following university our possible techs will be:

Magnetism (Galleon, Frigate, Electricity (w/metallurgy))
Steam Engine (Ironclad, Eiffel Tower, Railroad (w/bridges))
Chivalry (Knights, Leadership)
Metallurgy (Cannon, Coastal Fortress, Conscription)
Medicine (sanitation)
Theory of Gravity (Newton's, Atomic Theory)
Theology (Bach's)

So, with that in mind, here are some possible tech paths that I've laid out:

Metallurgy -> Conscription

Metallurgy will net us Cannons (8.1.1) which would be very useful against the walled Egyptian and American cities. Conscription would then give us Riflemen (5.4.1), which all 54 of our Musketeers (3.3.1) would upgrade to thanks to Leo's. Conscription is also a prereq for Tactics (Alpine troops, cavalry)

Chivalry -> Leadership -> (Conscription) -> Tactics

This path would greatly upgrade our attacking forces. Chivalry will give Knights (4.2.2) which are slightly weaker offensively than the Crusaders (5.1.2) that we already have. Leadership gives Dragoons (5.2.2) that any existing Knights and Crusaders will upgrade to. Tactics is big - with it, we can get Cavalry (8.3.2) and our dragoons would upgrade to them.

Steam Engine -> (Bridge Building) -> Railroad

Steam Engine will give us Ironclads (4.4.4), and since we have both the Lighthouse and Magellan's, they will have stats of (4.4.7) and would let us easily dominate the seas. The Eiffel tower is a relatively useless wonder as we currently have a reputation of Excellent. Railroad will give us, well, railroads, as well as Darwin's Voyage (2 free techs).

Magnetism -> Metallurgy -> Electricity

Magnetism will give us Galleons (0.2.4) and Frigates (4.2.4). Our caravels will upgrade to one of these (but I'm not exactly sure which one. Military advisor?) However, it will also obsolete the advantages we have from the Lighthouse. Electricity will give us Destroyers (4.4.6), which Frigates upgrade to. It will also negate the American's Great Library.

Medicine -> Sanitation

Um, no. Medicine gives Shakespeare's, which the Americans already have, and none of our cities are in need of the sewer systems that Sanitation provides.

Theory of Gravity -> Atomic Theory

The only benefits this path would provide is Newton's College. I believe we can wait on this for a while.

Whew! Well, if you have your own suggestions for variations of these paths, go ahead and post them. You'll have 2 days to vote.

	28-05-2002 00:06									#2
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Why are there choices for both techs and the paths that result from a few of them?

	28-05-2002 00:15									#3
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Gramphos did them like this back in the first few months - if you want to research a certain tech but not go along one of the paths I've put in the poll, vote for a single tech.

	28-05-2002 01:03									#4
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We have Iron Working and Construction, right? So why can't we choose Bridge Building?

	28-05-2002 01:06									#5
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Great description of the effects of the various tech paths, Science Advisor ixnay37! I heartily support your candidacy for the next term. These kinds of posts are invaluable to all of us in understanding what we should research and the benefits of the different techs available to us!

	28-05-2002 03:13									#6
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wow...how long did it take to make this (gazes in aw)



Shade

	28-05-2002 07:41									#7
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I say we advance as fast as possible for railroad, while building several engineers. Then we build continental railroads on the continents we share with other civilizations. Then, when we've passed them in military, our military can conquer each continent in a matter of turns.
Turning them into railroads shouldn't be hard, since most of the continents already have extensive railroad systems.

	28-05-2002 16:58									#8
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I second Bigcash. Railroads is the fastest way to achieve increased productivity. At the same time ironclads will be able to help defend out coast lines and the railroads will enable us to cut down on defensive forces as reinforcements can be transported over the Apolyton island and eliminate all beachheads.

	28-05-2002 18:44									#9
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Steam Engine!!!

Ironclads will allow us to sidestep those pesky city walls for most AI cities. Look at the map, few cities are not coastal. We can easily dominate the enemy with ironclads!

	28-05-2002 19:40									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Bigcash I say we advance as fast as possible for railroad, while building several engineers. Then we build continental railroads on the continents we share with other civilizations. Then, when we've passed them in military, our military can conquer each continent in a matter of turns. Turning them into railroads shouldn't be hard, since most of the continents already have extensive railroad systems.

You mean "road systems"? I don't see a single RR track anywhere.

	28-05-2002 19:51									#11
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IRONCLADS!!!!!!!!!

Vote Steam Engine!

(and steal bridge building so we don't have to waste research time on it)

	28-05-2002 20:23									#12
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Right On, Comrade!

	29-05-2002 12:31									#13
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Yea for Ironclads (Steam Engine). I would want Cannons and Riflemen, but I fear for our sailors and the troops they ferry across the oceans in our lieration project. Remember that Caravel that killed one of our own off the coast of Egypt?

	29-05-2002 17:24									#14
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At this very moment: Ironclads or bust! 5 votes and Steam Engine-->(bridge building)-->RR 4 votes. Does this mean that the later is winning as well or what?

	29-05-2002 20:23									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin At this very moment: Ironclads or bust! 5 votes and Steam Engine-->(bridge building)-->RR 4 votes. Does this mean that the later is winning as well or what?

This is true, but then at this time 9 people have also voted for the two options that involve Conscription/Leo upgrades, and 7 have voted for paths involving Metallurgy!

Unless this is just seen as a straight win for the option that polls the most, there could be endless arguments as to which results should be added to which!

	29-05-2002 21:43									#16
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Metallurgy -> Conscription has 5 votes too now, I think we'll need a second round of this one...

	29-05-2002 23:51									#17
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theres a 3 way tie on this apparantly

	30-05-2002 00:02									#18
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As we're playing on an island map, we should get steam engine asap, let us rule the seas!!

	30-05-2002 03:03									#19
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As your science advisor I believe I have a plan to resolve this deadlock! With the 5 votes for steam engine and 5 for the RR path, I believe steam engine should be researched first. Following that, we should go after metallurgy. Then, if we have bridge building we should go for railroad, else we get conscription! So, to summarize:

1: Steam Engine
2: Metallurgy
3: Railroad (if we have bridge building), else
4: Conscription

and then start down the path to Tactics.

If there is no strong opposition to this, this is the plan I will present to the President.

	30-05-2002 03:08									#20
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That sounds resonable, as we seems to discovering new techs fast hopefully none will feel their path has been neglected anyway.

	30-05-2002 03:46									#21
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quote: Originally posted by ixnay37 As your science advisor I believe I have a plan to resolve this deadlock! With the 5 votes for steam engine and 5 for the RR path, I believe steam engine should be researched first. Following that, we should go after metallurgy. Then, if we have bridge building we should go for railroad, else we get conscription!

That's how I interpret the results, too.

	30-05-2002 18:32									#22
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That seems a correct interpretation of this poll (at first sight scattered)

	02-06-2002 22:38									#23
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Ahhhh! I just have to quickly (and URGENTLY) stress that Magnetism is BAAAD! It invalidates Lighthouse which gives us vet Ironclads upon completion! The extra move is nice but not essential - the vet status IS! Whatever you do, we must not have Magnetism until absolutely necessary or until we have enough vet 'Clads to last for a while.

No, that's the wrong smiley. I need a :don'tdoitnow: smiley.

Minister of WAR, not peace.
MrWIA.

	02-06-2002 23:46									#24
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The Ironclad Offensive will be greatly helped by having Lighthouse still in effect, and we might well want to turn much production over to them and even rush them, lest another civ get Magnetism (no one we can check is researching it right now or has it). Having a fleet of a dozen vet Ironclads would allow us to destroy the defenders in most coastal cities.

It doesn't get better than that until you can do the same thing with Battleships. It's a narrow window of oppurtunity, though. We *will* want to get Electricity (to get to Hoover's for the great productivity increase) eventually, and that will expire the Lighthouse. So we could do well with a large Ironclad Fleet very soon.

	02-06-2002 23:58									#25
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Where's the next science poll?