28-05-2002 07:52									#1
	Two Questions re Probes Support Apolyton

1) - Interrogate and return unharmed

In a current MP game a routine sortie uncovered two probeships lurking in my coastal waters - I selected the option "interrogate and return them unmolested" when I moved sagainst them. They then appeared in the other player's HQ, which was landlocked

Now I know that Firaxis in v 4.0 corrected the bug that sent units to the nearest base when a pact dissolved, where ships would be sent to a landlocked base if that were the closest. But I believe that probes get sent to the HQ.

Any clarifications from players who've "been there, done that"?

2) - Equipping Probes with SAM capability

In the current CGN challenge I had a Hive chopper finish its turn just outside one of my bases. recognizing that ground troops can fire at choppers which are grounded, I sent a probe to it, and got the message "Only Probe Teams equipped with the Air Superiority ability can subvert air units"

I then tried to give a probe team that ability, but couldn't.

Anyone else get that message, try that and succeed? (I'm thinking that it might have been possible with an earlier version of smac)

G.

	28-05-2002 08:12									#2
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1) Sorry, G, I have nothing definitive on this. I do know that occasionally returningprobes get placed inappropriately...no more than that.

Probe foils in a lanlocked base- lol. That's an expensive way to provide HQ security!

AKAIK, probes have never been able to support either the amphibious or the air superiority ability, despite those in-game messages that tell you such an ability is needed to do the action you just attempted.

The only way I know to subvert an air unit is to mind control the base where it is located.

	28-05-2002 08:15									#3
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Concerning Part One of the above: funny you should mention this now! I am currently in a private H2H game with Northswordsman where he caught one of my Probe Foils lurking around one of his bases. He interogated, then sent home my foil - right into my landlocked HQ!?! We had a few good laughs over that one as far as what to do with a landlocked Probe Foil! I ended up dissolving the unit, as it served no purpose in its permanent locale. FYI.


D

	28-05-2002 08:34									#4
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You could always wait until rising sea levels unlock the HQ.

	28-05-2002 08:45									#5
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In my latest game of SMAC/X I had Aki interrogate and return one of my probe foils, but it wasn't sent to my HQ, but rather the coastal base that originally bulit the probe. Perhaps in SMAX version 2.0 this auto-return probes to HQ issue was fixed. Or perhaps it just applies to sea probes.

As for the second query, I haven't been able to doctor any of my probes with SAM in the first place. It doesn't make much sense anyway, a probe team attempting to conduct covert espionage inside a roaring needlejet.

	28-05-2002 08:51									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Mongoose You could always wait until rising sea levels unlock the HQ.

It would take detonating quite a few PB's to bring the sea levels to the level needed to free this foil! I've sent you the specific game just to give you an idea of my situation.


D

	28-05-2002 12:59									#7
	Treaty Probes in my territory Remove this text

How does sending back probes work?
I had a Treaty with the Hive, and they had four probes in my territory. I sent an infantry to kick them out, but the only option was to attack and break the Treaty.

Is it because of sunspot activity? In which case, shouldn't anything I do with/to probes be concealed anyway?

	28-05-2002 13:04									#8
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Just build your own probe teams and destroy them - since probes have no 'official' existence their destruction can't affect your standing with that faction.

	28-05-2002 16:47									#9
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I don't think you can capture and interrogate probe teams that are doubled up - i.e. more than one in a tile. Although i may be getting confused with civ2 (with diplomats in place of probe teams).

	28-05-2002 17:10									#10
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quote: It would take detonating quite a few PB's to bring the sea levels to the level needed to free this foil! I've sent you the specific game just to give you an idea of my situation.

It may suprise you to learn that Sea Formers can be used for such earthworks

Stacked probes cant be evicted.. I've used it in IP games, or atleast I tried to use it. My friend just attacked and killed my probes instead.

Another interesting thing, in IP games you have no choice but to probe your allies bases should a probe wander into one when on "goto". I say wander, but they gravitate to the damn bases.

	28-05-2002 17:46									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Blake It may suprise you to learn that Sea Formers can be used for such earthworks

I've seen that game, Blake. It's really not a viable option. His HQ is 12 - 15 tiles from the sea. He would lose half his heartland and spend 100 times the worth of the probe foils were he to lower terrain to make that base a port

	28-05-2002 17:56									#12
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quote: I've seen that game, Blake. It's really not a viable option. His HQ is 12 - 15 tiles from the sea. He would lose half his heartland and spend 100 times the worth of the probe foils were he to lower terrain to make that base a port

Only 12 - 15 tiles? pffft

Yeah, I know it wouldn't be viable for the couple of rows the probe is worth. Twas just the thought of using planetbusters for earth(re)moving.

Anyone else want a "Molest and return otherwise unharmed." option. Would sure discourage probe teams from entering your territory

	28-05-2002 18:36									#13
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About the probes with SAM... has anyone made flying probes?

	28-05-2002 19:15									#14
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I tried to make probe needlejets but it didnīt work. Havenīt tried on Choppers thoe but i dont think that works either.

	28-05-2002 21:42									#15
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It's been my impression that both land and sea probes return to the nearest base (and sea probes to sea bases or ports) when finished with missions (although being somewhat unsure of this 'rule', I often rehome probes closer to the action before using them aggressively). OTOH, I have seen sea units which I have probed away from another faction assigned to a landlocked base for support (presumably because that base was nearest the unit). I would have guessed that deported probes behaved properly, but given the track record, I have no trouble believing that they don't.

Personally, I use the 'Gossamer' attribute on all my 'attack' probes to guarantee that they will not be detected and deported, hence my lack of direct experience with the problem.

	29-05-2002 04:37									#16
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To give probe teams the SAM ability, you have to edit alpha.txt (or alphax.txt). Look for the line

Air Superiority, 1, DocAir, SAM, 000000001111, Attacks air units

in the #ABILITIES section, and change it to

Air Superiority, 1, DocAir, SAM, 000000101111, Attacks air units

With the appropriate tech (DAP), you can then create what someone else calls a "James Bond" unit.

Petek

	29-05-2002 05:04									#17
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quote: Originally posted by johndmuller It's been my impression that both land and sea probes return to the nearest base (and sea probes to sea bases or ports) when finished with missions... I would have guessed that deported probes behaved properly, but given the track record, I have no trouble believing that they don't.

As the victim of Googlie's misadventure, trust me - my probe foils were returned to my HQ, which is neither the closest base nor a sea base or port.

	29-05-2002 05:20									#18
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when you "capture and interrogate" do you actually get information from them? its been a long time since i've seen a probe in my territory that belonged to someone i was at peace with.

	29-05-2002 06:46									#19
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My experience with both land and sea probes is that sometimes it will return to the nearest base after a successful action, sometimes it will go to the base that built it, and sometimes to the HQ.

I haven't carefully observed where my probes go when they get booted out; my hypothesis is that any of the above three options could happen.

Air probes aren't designable under the standard alpha text; drop probes are.

The problem of not being able to boot out multiple stacked probes has led to more than one needless war with the AI for me. If possible I'll try to block them or have a countering stack of defensive probes in the nearest base. If not, war is often the safest option. I regard this particular 'feature' as another bug.

	29-05-2002 14:27									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Petek To give probe teams the SAM ability, you have to edit alpha.txt (or alphax.txt). Look for the line Air Superiority, 1, DocAir, SAM, 000000001111, Attacks air units in the #ABILITIES section, and change it to Air Superiority, 1, DocAir, SAM, 000000101111, Attacks air units With the appropriate tech (DAP), you can then create what someone else calls a "James Bond" unit. Petek

Ah, so the sixth bit from the right means "can be applied to a probe team". Does anyone know if the same is true on the Chassis declarations (ie - can you adjust it so that a Needlejet probe works)? Does anyone know what the other bits do?

And wouldn't Amphibious be more of a James Bond unit? He did the whole "enter a party by river in a DJ under a wetsuit" stunt in one film.

	29-05-2002 16:31									#21
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I think it would be easier to take control of a needlejet than a land unit - I mean i can easily imagine some kind of device that could control enemy aircraft and land them in a base of your own. But i'm not too sure about mind-controlling an enemy infantry unit. How does that work?

	29-05-2002 17:25									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Chowlett Does anyone know what the other bits do?

R T F M !!!

Jokes apart, I think to recall that information is fully detailed inside the alpha.txt itself in a block of comments at the beginning of the related section.