28-05-2002 12:02									#1
	Anti-Corruption Unit Enter the AD-FREE zone

One of the biggest problems of this game is the killing
corruption. It's very hard when you found a town in
an isle far away from your capital and you are stopped
with 1 shield production. Unless, of course, you decide
to buy a Courthouse...

Another approach to this problem may be the use of a
"Viceroy" unit, for example. It should cost the same
as a Courthouse (in number of shields) and have the
property of convert in a Courthouse in a town which
doesn`t have it. Thus, you can colonize an island with
a caravel filled with a settler, "Viceroy" and a
military unit.

What do you think?

	28-05-2002 12:21									#2
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Good idea. Not currently doable though. I take it the viceroy is used up in converting this courthouse, so it can move from town to town?

	28-05-2002 12:29									#3
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quote: Originally posted by zulu9812 Good idea. Not currently doable though. I take it the viceroy is used up in converting this courthouse, so it can move from town to town?

Yes. The idea is to use a productive city to make this kind of unit and then send it to far (and corrupt) towns. This unit should be like a leader, with no attack or defense values. But with the ability to convert itself into a Courthouse instead of into an Army.

	28-05-2002 12:34									#4
	Put an end to popups!

In my opinion, this sounds too powerful unless the unit costs 200 shields (vs. 80 for a regular courthouse). A player could move the Viceroy from city to city until each city gets their own courthouse built. Think about similar units for other buildings, a mobile temple or library unit, or a mobile barracks. Move the mobile temple from city to city until the cultural border gets to two squares, and then move to the next city. Think how powerful a mobile barracks unit might be during a war.

Good idea, but probably unbalances the game. The AI is unlikely to take advantage of these kind of units.

The alternative is to play a style that generates a lot of gold and use a government that allows the purchase of buildings.

The best way to combat corruption is to limit the number of cities in your empire and aim for a peaceful victory.

	28-05-2002 12:54									#5
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It's a good idea. Should be expensive though.

	28-05-2002 12:54									#6
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quote: Originally posted by BillChin In my opinion, this sounds too powerful unless the unit costs 200 shields (vs. 80 for a regular courthouse). A player could move the Viceroy from city to city until each city gets their own courthouse built. Think about similar units for other buildings, a mobile temple or library unit, or a mobile barracks. Move the mobile temple from city to city until the cultural border gets to two squares, and then move to the next city. Think how powerful a mobile barracks unit might be during a war. Good idea, but probably unbalances the game. The AI is unlikely to take advantage of these kind of units. The alternative is to play a style that generates a lot of gold and use a government that allows the purchase of buildings. The best way to combat corruption is to limit the number of cities in your empire and aim for a peaceful victory.

The problem is that I like to play as a warmonger rather than peacefully. And I think the fact that a city far from your empire can be productive gives the game more strategic depth. In real world places like Suez, Panama city, Gibraltar (sigh!), far away from their capital, have not died because corruption and have taken a important place in history. Imagine that this cities can not have city walls or barracks because the corruption issues! They will be defenseless...

But I recognize that perhaps the idea should be tweaked to get the AI to use it and not unbalance the game.

	28-05-2002 15:28									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Pep In real world places like Suez, Panama city, Gibraltar (sigh!), far away from their capital, have not died because corruption and have taken a important place in history.

That is exactly the point. Panama city does not have the production of Chicago. If you want an improvement, you'll just have to pay for it. So yes, you can have city walls in Gibraltar. Just spend some of the cash London has been collecting.

	28-05-2002 15:43									#8
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Great idea!

	28-05-2002 18:33									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Very good idea, but I'm not sure if great, needs some testing. Specifically, I find that it might be a bit to cheap, with 80 shields. As you do conquest on some far away continent, have three good cities produce Viceroys for 5 turns, and you got 15 Viceroys soon thereafter .

Making them more expensive got to be the best solution.

I play with lowered corruption through the editor, solves the problems.

	28-05-2002 19:31									#10
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I like this idea. I would suggest that the "Viceroy" unit not convert into a courthouse, but just reduce corruption while present in a city, thus helping get the city established. And yes, the cost to build one should be large - say as much as an army.

BUT... existing courthouses/police stations should have a small percentage chance (very, very small) of generating a Viceroy each turn.

Thus we have a non-military Great Leader. The same idea could be applied to culture, with Great Artists that can travel to cities and increase the culture generated in the city while they remain there. They could be built (at same cost as an Army) or generated by any culture generating building.

	28-05-2002 20:00									#11
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Great idea.

What if it were possible to get rid of the one great leader at a time thing, and make great leader's reduce corruption.

	28-05-2002 20:10									#12
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yes, I like the idea of multiple GLs. I would like a leader that acts as a minor version of the FP. I would like a leader that acts as an invisible assasin who can kill other great leaders, but who could be exposed through spying and killed. Add lots of versions.

Bugger the AI, we need improvements for multiplayer gameplay depth!

	28-05-2002 21:45									#13
	Put an end to popups!

I misunderstood. I thought the unit sticks around and goes from city to city as needed. If all a player wants is one courthouse in one city, that capability is in the game with disbanding units or hurrying production with gold. It is 320 shields in units to produced an 80 shield courthouse. With bombers, getting them there is not an issue. Pre-flight it is, but there is something to be said for that.

Basically, it boils down to a request for Civ II caravans to shift production from one city to another. It is there, but there is a loss of 75% of the shields when disbanding.

	29-05-2002 05:33									#14
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The idea is fine, but you forget what will occur. . .

The REASON for all this massive corruption (which we can now edit to an extent with the slider and optimal cities) was a cheap quick fix by Soren for too rapid tech development due to poor programming planning.

You will likely have to Edit up costs for techs - unless you want to develop tanks in the 16th century or earlier!

	29-05-2002 19:43									#15
	Remove this text

Coracle, your first and third paragraphs were actually fairly constructive comments that furthered this thread. Congratulations, I think that's the first time I've seen that from you. Shame you had to throw in that gratuitous insult in the second...

	29-05-2002 19:54									#16
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After pondering this thread, I like Pep's original idea best: a unit that lowers corruption in a city by being fortified there. It should be stackable with, not convertible to, a courthouse. (Let's face it, courthouses just don't so all that much in cities that are very far away.)

For reasons mentioned by BillChin, you could only have a corruption unit of this sort - units for culture would be exploitable, and units for happiness, money and science would be redundant: we already have garrisons, entertainer, taxmen and scientists.

An anti-corruption unit would not be unbalancing, though, because if it ever left the city, production, research and income there would shoot right back down. Plus, since it is a unit, you would have to pay for its upkeep, thereby reducing your potential military power. It's a trade-off. And, when it comes down to it, the whole point of this game is making trade-offs of this sort.

Charge 120 or maybe even 160 shields for it, and make it available with Printing Press (thus giving some value to that otherwise useless tech).

	29-05-2002 19:56									#17
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Forgot to mention: to balance it out, corruption would have to go back up to near 1.17f levels. I actually like the idea of high corruption (let's face it, it happens), as long as there are things like this I could do to fight it.

	29-05-2002 23:44									#18
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good idea, maybe instead of a separate unit you could just have the leader do this...

	30-05-2002 02:24									#19
	Re: Anti-Corruption Unit Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Pep One of the biggest problems of this game is the killing corruption. It's very hard when you found a town in an isle far away from your capital and you are stopped with 1 shield production. Unless, of course, you decide to buy a Courthouse... Another approach to this problem may be the use of a "Viceroy" unit, for example. It should cost the same as a Courthouse (in number of shields) and have the property of convert in a Courthouse in a town which doesn`t have it. Thus, you can colonize an island with a caravel filled with a settler, "Viceroy" and a military unit. What do you think?

hi ,

maybe we should ask for a prison , ....there is a courthouse , but the criminals only have to report to the police station , .....

as for the rest , corruption is part of our every day live ,, .....

and you can always change the levels all the way to "zero" in the editor , .....

have a nice day

	30-05-2002 03:00									#20
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I like the idea of having corruption reduced as long as the unit is fortified there, but I think that it would be far to powerful to allow it to transform into a courthouse, and I think that it would totally screw the corruption aspect of the game if it could create courthouses in multiple cities. If I had a clue hwo to use the editor, my fix to corruption would be to add the ability to fight corruption to most basic structues, i.e. temples and marketplaces....but I don't know how

	30-05-2002 19:21									#21
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PP73, it's pretty easy, open the editor, go to file->open, open civ3mod.bic, go to rules->edit rules, click the 'improvements' marker, find the barracks (for instance) in the pull-down menu, and then check the box that says "reduces corruption." Then hit "OK," close out of the editor, and say yes to saving.

You probably want to back up a copy of your civ3mod.bic foirst, of course. I didn't, of course.