29-05-2002 02:16									#1
	Will PtW have true stacking Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Like CTP? I would like to be able to condense all my captured workers into groups of 8 or so. It would be much easier to manage, especially for pollution clean-up. Not to mention the benefit of moving 40 tanks, but joint movement isn't quite as annoying in that scenario.

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	29-05-2002 02:22									#2
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I think there will be true stacks in PtW :
It's advertised, and I think Firaxis will hold its promises now. Plus, there are buttons in the PtW screenshots which seem to lead to the stack window.

	29-05-2002 04:25									#3
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i also heard rumors of stacked bombard. mhhh.. 40 artillery firing at once.

	29-05-2002 05:36									#4
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Well, from the various previews and reviews, it says you can "marry a settler and a spearman, or a battleship and a transport", so i'm assuming you can make some sort of group. So that they always move together. Wether there will be a limit to the number of units in that group or not is the question.

	29-05-2002 14:11									#5
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I just hope they don't attack in stacks too, like they did in the ctp games...

	29-05-2002 15:42									#6
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I hope they do.
I don't want to wait for 40 tanks, attacking one by one.

	29-05-2002 16:02									#7
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There's a big difference between what ADG and Maestro suggest.

One variant is where they just can be ordered to attack all - your 40 Tanks will automatically attack that stack of 30 infantry, till either is eliminated, but the battle will proceed the same way it does now, you just won't have to do your click-n-drag procedure 40 times.

Second variant is fighting a-la CtP, which would dramatically change all the battle strategies currently applicable to Civ 3, and I'm against this. While CtP's combat system isn't bad, I prefer this one. I don't, though, think Firaxis would do this.

	29-05-2002 19:07									#8
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I don't want them all attacking at once either, just an option of it maybe. I often split my attack force if i've got alot, to go and take other citys. Besides, who clicks and drags to attack unless you're far away from the city? I just use numpad. :P

	29-05-2002 23:27									#9
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quote: Originally posted by ADG I just hope they don't attack in stacks too, like they did in the ctp games...

That was one of the best ideas to come out of CTP2 because if you wanted to win then you had to have the right mix of archers, swordsmen, and knights in your army. Combined arms added a whole new level of strategic thinking to the game.

That said, Civ3 already has GL and armies so I doubt they'll make CTP2 style armies. Even if it would improve the game.

	30-05-2002 18:18									#10
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Solver,

Why would u be against putting in that style of attacking? IMO in the ctp series the combat was more in depth, and it made for, what I believe, a more realistic comabt model, because instead of just waiting for it's turn to attack you could get ranged attackers and flanking attackers which contributed to the realistic feel of it.

	30-05-2002 19:08									#11
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Rhuarc,

It may partially have to be the deal with my long-time playing of Civ 1/2, but I didn't somehow find the CtP's system interesting. I disliked the impossibility to attack with lone units. You couldn't make a skirmish with 4 units. Also, IMO, it was too tough to take cities usually.

I do not think that the CtP combat system is bad. I just think that the traditional Civ one is better.

	30-05-2002 19:53									#12
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yeah, there were so many defensive bonuses and so many units in the cities you couldn't take one in the ancient age because there was no bombard. When you get tanks it changes, just stack a few tanks with a few marines and that ranged attack is invincible!

But until then, it was way too hard.

	30-05-2002 20:00									#13
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Yeah... CtP was a bit flawed balance-wise. Musketeers, Cannons and Cavalry came straight after each other, and Musket - Cannon combo was close to unbeatable, and then those Cavalry stacks for front lines... ah.

	01-06-2002 06:58									#14
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Just to be devils advocate... r u shure CTP's combat model isn't better?

It just seems more realistic to me and cultivates the concept of combined operations.

It helps promote the paradigm that a small force of different units (infantry/cavalry/artillery) will outperform masses of unco-ordinated and solitary uits... which is effectively what a 30 unit stack is in CIV3.

Throughout historical periods - Greek, Carthaginian, Roman, Napoleonic, Norman, WWII smaller better co-ordinated armies defeated large en-masse enemies.

While I like both systems, I do think that CTP's model promotes strategic play... especially in multiplayer.

But while I prefer CTP's model better, I do not think that Firaxis has the AI skills to program these concepts into the AI CIV's.

(Even in CTP, Activision did an abysmal job at developing AI military competency.. it has only been after 2-3 years of talented mod scripting that CTP2 has matured into a complex and challenging strategy game in the military sense).

	01-06-2002 19:50									#15
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Even the modded CtP AI doesn't come close to Civ 3 AI, alas. It has not surprised me as much as Civ 3 AI (written in 4 months!) did.

As for the original AI of both CtPs, it was unable to put any offensive pressure.