29-05-2002 04:28									#1
	Query about probe framing: Tired of ads?

Greetings talents.

I was wondering if anyone knew about the probability of probes getting caught for their attempts to frame another faction during espionage, and whether or not, if caught, the faction the player meant to frame is always aware of it. Basically, the situation was I wished to attack Aki so I could probe her substantial tech lead into my datalkinks. She had the Hunter-Seeker Algorithim and the only way of probing her would be to take the base that contained said project. She was treatied with everyone on Planet so no one was interested in Pacting with me over the issue. I tried threatening her into vendetta but she ignored my threats, and then started ignoring my calls. I threw waves of probes at the Cult, trying out the most difficult espionage acts I could while attempting to frame Aki. A number of these got compromised, either before or after they accomplished their task. However each and every time, there was no denounciation or repercusions from Aki. Now I'm certain she was aware of my attempt to frame her. Is it possible she just ignored me each time, pacifist she is? Our relations were magnanimous and had been treatied for the longest time, but I was itching for war and eventually just had to illegally break my treaty. Hope that Planet Buster she has a base over isn't planning on going anywhere.

	29-05-2002 04:37									#2
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Have you no shame, MA? Do your own research! LOL

	29-05-2002 05:58									#3
	Re: Query about probe framing: Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I'm not 100% certain, but I think when an AI faction chooses to not declare Vendetta on a framed faction, some of the factors are:

(a) if they are Treatied/Pacted
(b) if they have the framed faction's Comm

	29-05-2002 06:24									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Mongoose Have you no shame, MA? Do your own research! LOL

I was concerned that Aki appeared to be withholding scientific data in violation of the UN Charter for this mission. Having made several attempts to reason with her (I did try to buy tech off her on several occassions; each time she "coincidentally" anted up the cost just beyond my energy reserves), I decided to forcibly extract the data as a 'peacekeeping' measure in the name of the balance of Planet.

I happened to be Lal as well.

	29-05-2002 18:26									#5
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Framing only works when applied to factions you are not in a vendetta with, but the faction you want to frame can be in vendetta with you.

For example, pact/treaty/truce with University, any relations with Hive:

you can probe University, framing the Hive, and if successful the University will declare vendetta on the Hive.

If you had been at vendetta with University, you could frame all you want, but they will not declare vendetta on Hive.

	04-06-2002 18:03									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Marid Audran I was concerned that Aki appeared to be withholding scientific data in violation of the UN Charter for this mission. Having made several attempts to reason with her (I did try to buy tech off her on several occassions; each time she "coincidentally" anted up the cost just beyond my energy reserves), I decided to forcibly extract the data as a 'peacekeeping' measure in the name of the balance of Planet. I happened to be Lal as well.

"Ha! Perhaps you should ask the UN to invoke 'sanctions'! Ha ha ha!"

The UN Charter expired when the crew and colonists of the Unity partitioned. The only part that still applies is the atrocities prohibition.

	05-06-2002 00:23									#7
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quote: Originally posted by LordAzreal The UN Charter expired when the crew and colonists of the Unity partitioned. The only part that still applies is the atrocities prohibition.

More or less. The atrocities prohibition is more a matter of planetary good faith that no one would stoop to such a level.

It would have been interesting to see an alternative Unity mission were the Unity didn't suffer a reactor malfunction from a meteor, Garland wasn't assassinated, Santiago didn't stowaway her insurgents, etc. In otherwords, "all as planned," as they founded a primary colony with the help of everyone, from Morgan's industrial savvy to Zak's technical wizardry. Whether it would have balkanized later is a different matter.

Oh, and thanks Fluffy for answering my question. I was indeed in Vendetta with the Cult so my framing didn't do jack. "Fluffy," isn't that name of a mind worm from some Gaian fanfic somewhere? Sounds vaguely familiar.