30-05-2002 07:27									#1
	A simple solution to the pollution problem. Support Apolyton

Having on another thread been accused of being critical but never offering solutions to Civ3 problems I decided to solve one. Pollution.

Problem: Tedious to have to send workers out to clean it up. Doesn't add to gameplay. Worker automation still doesn't relieve the issue.

I thought about it and in about 5 seconds came up with a better way to implement it.

Solution: Occurances of pollution reduce the production of a hex for a set number of turns then returns to normal. Can't be removed or cleaned up or cancelled out.

This improves gameplay. Players have to think and plan in advance to avoid the effects of polution. No more using brute force in the form of hundreds of workers to instaclean pollution. Reduces tedium.
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Doubtless some numbskull will come in and say, "can't do that cause its beyond the capability of the AI".

	30-05-2002 07:31									#2
	Re: A simple solution to the pollution problem. Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick Doubtless some numbskull will come in and say, "can't do that cause its beyond the capability of the AI".

if it's automatic, why would the AI not comprehend it?

and i dont think it should work this way, because pollution can last indefinately if you let it. it forces you to keep workers on the payrol.

	30-05-2002 07:51									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Maybe I didn't make my point clear. It enhances gameplay because players are forced to consider whether or not they should build pollution creating facilities. Whats the use of having facilities that double your production if it results in pollution that reduces your production in half.

Makes a player think about building less mines or maybe working fewer squares (use some specialists), build pollution reducing facilities or other paths other than the straight build out to the limit and count on workers strat used now.

This is what the AI couldn't do well. Strategic economic or military thinking is beyond A!.

I don't see the point of forcing a player to keep workers on the payroll, I don't see how that adds to gameplay.

	30-05-2002 08:03									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Not a bad idea at all. But I still prefer the exisiting system. I don't like the idea of making workers redundant once all irrigation, mines roads and railroads are in place.

	30-05-2002 08:05									#5
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick Maybe I didn't make my point clear. It enhances gameplay because players are forced to consider whether or not they should build pollution creating facilities. Whats the use of having facilities that double your production if it results in pollution that reduces your production in half.

The way it is, you'd be thinking too much of the consequences anyway, since it reduces to square to a useless mess with no production at all.

quote: I don't see the point of forcing a player to keep workers on the payroll, I don't see how that adds to gameplay.

Automate the workers so that they will clean pollution, and then you can focus on the important aspects such as waging war.

	30-05-2002 08:10									#6
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Well, the last time I played the automation was not sufficient to the task, but I admit that Firaxis has come a long way in this area.

I would prefer that there be a lot more for the workers to build anyway but that is not in the cards.

	30-05-2002 08:12									#7
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I am frankly amazed that there are people who like the current implementation of pollution in this game. I am just amazed.

	30-05-2002 08:22									#8
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It's the same as Civ 2 except that it doesn't disappear alltogether. On the other hand in Civ, Civ 2, and SMAC, I never automated units.

	30-05-2002 08:44									#9
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Good Idea Jimmytrick! I would suggest going a step further and having a pollution "scale" going from negligable through annoying through to lethal!
When you exceed a certain pollution threshold, the scale begins to increase after X turns, the number of turns between increases would depend on how much you exceed the threshold by! When you hit the "Annoying" part of the scale, each additional point causes a square to lose part of it's productivity-either food, commerce or production (at random), and cause increasing levels of unhappiness. When the scale reaches the "lethal" region, squares begin to randomly lose ALL production and a population drop! Nuclear weapons would have the ability to put a city into the lethal range Immediately!! Getting pollution below the threshold would require building environmental improvements (solar plant, recycling centre) and having appropriate "Specialists" (Environmentalists!) Once you are below the threshold, the counter starts to drop after X turns, as previously described! Production and population lost to "Lethal" pollution will not return until you get back to "Annoying", but production lost due to annoying pollution will return X turns after the counter drops down a point (as was suggested by Jimmytrick!)
How long this wait is will depend on several factors, like appropriate improvements and having workers cleaning up the square (this still leaves workers with a role in pollution reduction, whilst eliminating the "brute force" factor Jimmytrick described!)
Lastly, annoying and lethal pollution levels would contribute to global pollution levels. This would work the same way as local pollution but, instead of effecting productivity, would cause the terrain itself to change (coast becomes sea, grassland becomes desert etc!)
Anyway, thats how I would love to see it work. I realise that it's too much to expect such a change in an XP, and is therefore more applicable to the Civ4 thread but, who knows, stranger things have happened!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker

	30-05-2002 08:59									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Another simple way to eliminate pollution is to make an adjustment in the editor to pollution producing buildings. If you are sadistic, you can increase it or make other buildings cause pollution.

	30-05-2002 09:42									#11
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Excellent idea! Perhaps the amount of time it stays around could depend on factors like the amount of total pollution the city produces and for how long. You could take it to a whole new level, but best to keep it simple. Eventually, however, there should be a way to make pollution only last one turn, some modern advance perhaps that makes your civ enviormental.

	30-05-2002 21:25									#12
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My biggest problem with the current pollution model is that the city stops using the polluted square, but doesn't start using it again when the pollution is cleaned up. So every turn in the modern age I gotta scroll through my larger cities to make sure they are using squares the way I want them to. And no, the "governor" is NOT an acceptable solution to this.

	31-05-2002 00:41									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

What pollution problem?

	31-05-2002 02:25									#14
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It is good point about cities not reusing a square after the pollution is cleaned up....very annoying. Very lagre cities don't suffer from this problem though.

I also can understand why I can not build enough implements to stop pollution altogether. Pollution in Civ 111 is out of control! We don't trip over pollution in the real world, like one does in civ 111.