30-05-2002 08:22									#1
	FIRAXIS: How To Fix The Ministers Got spare money?

if you recall your foriegn minister from civ2 (and ignore the banana fettish) you will recall a great screen full of information.

if you look at civ3's, you will notice a lack of basic information.

here are my ideas on how to fix the foriegn minister.

Forget the Web
People may like to look at the pretty leader portraits before dealing with other civs (and again staring at them), but it really serves no purpose. Using the small [D] button on the right side of the screen pops up a list of all the civs and their treaty status with you. i'd also like to see the attitude of the civ there.

Bring Back The Intelligence Screen
You should also be able to right-click on any of the civs in that list and bring up an "intelligence screen" ala civ2. you should be able to see all the techs the civ has, what they're researching, a list of their cities, everything civ2 had. of course you'd need an embassy for that, and the spy network could somehow enhanse that. You shouldn't have to go into diplomacy to find out what techs / how much $$ someone has. this will be KEY in MP, because warring civs may not talk to you, and you might want to keep tabs on them.

Find the Original Civ 2 Foriegn Advisor with a Bananna that says "KruX" on it
Hey, i needed a little humor somewhere in here, didn't i?

moving on to the Military Advisor.

Make it determine the Technological Strength of armies
this topic has been ranted about for months. the SIZE of the military doesnt matter if my opponent has 5 spearmen to every tank i have (unless the opponent is a cheating AI, of course). Every unit should have some sort of point value associated with it, for example, warriors are worth 1, and Panzers are worth 40, or something. hat way 1 panzer is equal to 40 warriors in terms of determing hwo powerful your military is. this could also be useful in AI decision making.

Bring back the casuality List
(from an older thread, posted by me)
IMHO, you could make it so it's groupd by location on a given turn.

example: the battle fought in 200 AD near Rome

click that and it lists all the units that fought an enemy unit near rome on that turn.

things it could include would be an icon of each unit (firaxis loves it's graphics), rankings (elite etc) any promotions given, the HP levels of both, and of course the victor.

now on to the Domestic Advisor, or rather, Domestic NAG

Sorting by the "Producing" Column
i'll never understand why Firaxis chose nto to allow this, but when you go into the domestic advisor screen you can sort by everything about a city except what it's producing. simply put, allow it.

SMAC-esque "Summary" Box
I'm not sure what it's official name was, but in SMAC there was a little box that had all the messages (civil disorder, etc) incase you missed them. i miss a lot fo messages in civ, and if i'm playing MP i'll probably be watching tv / doing other things when it's not my turn. i KNOW i'll miss more. this box is KEY.

i have no other problems with her i'm sure someone else can find a few.

next, the Trade Advisor.

Foriegn Trades
i'm not sure wether this should go in the foriegn minister stuff or here, so i just put it here for no reason. You should be able to pick a civ and see all of their exports. I want to know if the Romans are selling my enemies oil. It would greatly effect world diplomacy. Yuo would need an embassy to view this, of course.

More Useful "Advice"
Let's fact it Firaxis, the "Advice" she spits out is utter bullplop. "We should Acquire More Resource Luxuries", thank you ms. obvious. Useful advice would be "There are silks near Leipzig, build a road network there", or, "The Romans might undersell the Egyptians for the Rubber you're buying". The latter would have to be determined by varying conditions of which i am unsure of. What makes the AI sell you goods for less? attitude? suitation in the game?

Use the Box Mentioned In the Domestic Nag Stuff
When the Romans acquire a source of Uranium within their borders, i want to know about it, and that box could be very helpful. Infact, as it stands now, you dont even know what goods a civ has unless you see their map, or have a surplus of a good they dont have. Also, the box could be used for rades of resources (ie, "The Romans Now Import Oil from the Greeks), combing this suggestion with the previous ones.

ah, the Cultural Advisor.

Assimilation Warning
every city should have 2 bars, the current one (culture build up) and a new one, "Risk of Revolting". It would have to be determined by a bunch of factors, namely according to the bordering civ. The total cultures of both civs would have to be compared, the cultures of bordering cities, the whole thing. You guys are the pros here, think up an algorithm.

Sorting
for some reason you cannot sort the list in the Cultural Advisor as in the Domestic Advisor. It would be nice if you could alphabetize the list, at least. It appears to just list the cities in the order of their founding, and with conquered civs, it gets confusing when you see London, Rome, Athens, Berlin... in no particular order.

Finally, the Science Advisor.

Make it LEARN, and build on that
i know this is a lot to ask, but i really have no problems with the current system. I'd rather you make the AI learn (my tactis and whatnot, to be a mroe efficient fighting machine), but the Science Advisor could employ similiar tactics. It could look at the current suitation from the other advisors, and base some advice that people could use. for example "we have a lot of size 12 cities, perhaps we should go for Sanitation", or "our people are unhappy, dive for Theology", or something to that effect.

i really have no problems as it stands now.

i hope you read this Firaxis, and take it as suggestions, not whining. This community is very supportive of your efforts, despite the whiners (myself included). We admire the way you listen to your customers.

good luck and thank you for reading.

PS: in 4 years i'll be out of college and lookign for a job. maybe then instead of telling you how to do your job, i'll be doing it myself

Last edited by Inverse Icarus on 30-05-2002 at 08:29

	30-05-2002 10:35									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

A few comments, but overall

How about creating a matrix instead of a web. For instance, when the "China" column is crossed with the "Russia" row, a red square would indicate that the two civs were at war, blue would be peace, green MPP, yellow... you get the idea.

A matrix would also have the capability of being expandable. So if some psycho (like me) wanted to play with 32 civs, there would just be 31 rows by 31 columns (crossed with self is not necessary).

The intelligence screen must return.

Why doesn't the intelligence or espionage screen show up when I right click on the leader head? I've seen the 'pedia show up too many times. It would be logical to enter into espionage from the *foreign advisor* screen...

Also, how about a little number that states the EMPIRE's culture per turn? Basically, how long do I have before victory (should I start building nukes ).

	30-05-2002 12:13									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

This all sounds pretty good, but the stuff about making the AI learn may be bit much.

Last edited by GeneralTacticus on 30-05-2002 at 12:33

	30-05-2002 14:56									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

A useful contribution, Krux. You might prove to be of some limited value to mankind yet!

Except for the AI learning pipe-dream and that Krux joke, these are all solid ideas that would streamline game play no end. The so called advisors are all but useless as is.

	30-05-2002 15:56									#5
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Wow, Krux you really hit the nail on the head with these ones. Unlike a lot of the suggestions that suggest radically altering gameplay, these all seem to be about streamlining (and in some case enabling) the steps you need to do to make good decisions.

	30-05-2002 16:31									#6
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Fingers crossed that Firaxis actually listen to the ideas put forth. They've made the most sense of anything I've seen posted on these forums.

	30-05-2002 19:51									#7
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Yes, I agree a CTP-like relations table would be nice.

I think military strength is somewhat related to units, because I've had the foreign advisor say our armies were the same size but the military advisor say theirs is stronger.

	30-05-2002 21:29									#8
	Support Apolyton

I'm a diehard partisan of the Intelligence screen. I still cannot understand why they didn't put it in : with it, you have in one screen all the info you need to find in 5-6 screens otherwise.
Including the Intelligence screen would be in the general direction of a more user-friendly interface.

That's why I doubt there will ever be a matrix for diplomatic relations, it would be uneasy to read.

	30-05-2002 21:31									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Most of the SSG games (Warlords, etc.) used the matrix, and while it wasn't always pretty, it was very easy to interpret.

	31-05-2002 01:15									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

been a while since i got positive replies, eh?

i swear, prior to civ3's release, i was like this all the time... to a search and look at my older posts, they're so *positive*

i honestly thought MP was comming out of box back then...

anyway, i hoppe Firaxis listens to me some more.

	31-05-2002 01:15									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Also please fix the mini map in the cultural advisor screen. We should be able to click on a city light and have that city selected in the list. It takes way, way to long to scroll to find the values of a city.

An alternative would be to put the each turn culture value in the city inspection screen.

	31-05-2002 01:23									#12
	Re: FIRAXIS: How To Fix The Ministers Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX Bring Back The Intelligence Screen You should also be able to right-click on any of the civs in that list and bring up an "intelligence screen" ala civ2.

Refreshingly excellent post, Uber. Might I add that bringing back the intelligence screen and tying the amount of information available on it to establishing an embassy or more importantly having a spy would actually add value to the whole sorely lacking espionage component of the game. They could even add some additional espionage missions that would fill in sections of the screen; I'd pay gold for that (as opposed to "Ferret out enemy spy" or whatever). Then I might bother with the Intelligence Agency.

	31-05-2002 02:25									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Wow, UberKruX,

I'm positively surprised. Please share more of your good ideas with us!

Some additions:

military advisor screen
- When viewed by city, enable the right-click on the unit to upgrade, disband, fortify, etc.
- Put in an "upgrade all" option at that screen, so that I don't have to leave the screen for doing that.

foreign advisor / trade screen and trade advisor
- Display the current trades/agreements/treaties and how many turns they will last
- On the trade advisor screen, when clicking on a civ, proceeding to the foreign advisor screen and closing the foreign advisor screen, then go back to where you came from (which is trade advisor screen) not to the game map.

wonders of the world screen
- For wonders under construction display the start date of the construction.

histograph
- When selecting power or culture from the drop down, show the corresponding ranking on the right hand side.

	31-05-2002 02:40									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Forgot one:
When starting negotiations with a civ, let me scroll through the possible answers with the arrow keys, I hate to have to use the mouse.
Keyboard usage can be enhanced in general, e.g select the different items on advisor screens by using the tab key.

	31-05-2002 07:01									#15
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

You know, ever since you got that new Homer Avatar Uber, you've been makeing EXCELLENT POSTS.


I'm in full support of your suggestions.

	31-05-2002 08:18									#16
	Got spare money?

Very good thread.

I wish the Advisor screens were sticky when you reposition them.
On my monitor the advisor screens are sometimes shifted rightward just enough that when I pull down the menu, the scroll bar on the right is off the screen, obliging me to close the menu, move the advisor screen to the left, then reopen the menu. Tedious!

Also, stickiness would let you slide it the screen upward, revealing more map and hiding the advisors' pictures.

	31-05-2002 12:04									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Lucilla histograph - When selecting power or culture from the drop down, show the corresponding ranking on the right hand side.

I've been wanting this since I checked that screen for the first time!

	31-05-2002 14:02									#18
	Re: FIRAXIS: How To Fix The Ministers Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX Assimilation Warning every city should have 2 bars, the current one (culture build up) and a new one, "Risk of Revolting". It would have to be determined by a bunch of factors, namely according to the bordering civ. The total cultures of both civs would have to be compared, the cultures of bordering cities, the whole thing. You guys are the pros here, think up an algorithm.

Excellent idea. I just might add that Firaxis wouldn't need to 'think up' anything - the probability that a certain city defects to another civ in the next turn is already part of the game.

	31-05-2002 17:20									#19
	Remove this text

you can reposition the advisors???

	31-05-2002 23:31									#20
	Remove this text

Also in the foreign advisor screen -

Put embassy creation and espionage into the foreign relations screen. It's kind of stupid that I have to search around on the map to find the pentagon to do espionage. It should be linked right from the advisor screen, maybe you right click on the portrait and it gives you the option to establish embassy or plant spy.

Also, if there is a spy in another civ, you should see that in the advisor screen. In the same way that civ's with embassies have that little yellow dot, there should be something for spies. In a perfect world, the dot would be replaced by a small icon that looks like an embassy, espionage would be a spy icon, and your civ info screen could be maybe a scroll or something, and each of these icons would be at the bottom of the portrait. Click embassy for trade, spy for espionage, and scroll for info - simple, easy to understand, elegant.

In Military advisor -

I'm sure this is pie in the sky, but how about a "Set Staging Area" command, where you can choose a city, and all new military units automatically go there when produced. Especially in the late game this would save a ton of micromanagement.

I don't know if this can be done since the rumor going around is that the AI doesn't really understand borders, but... I would love to have the military advisor warn me when an enemy is massing on the border. Here's the scenario - it is the late game in a huge map, the ai turn takes five minutes. I go get a coke, play a game of solitaire, come back, take a quick look at my production, see how longevity is coming, etc. Turn over. What I didn't notice is that the AI during its turn had moved a stack of 100 units to just their side of the border. I could've seen them if I'd looked, but tracing every inch of my border on a huge map is a ton of micromanagement. If the military advisor was doing his job he would have warned me - "Sir, the Romans are massing near Hyderabad" and I could have taken appropriate action. Again, it just saves on micromanagement.

trade advisor -

being able to see who is getting what resources from whom. Amen brother. That would be increadibly useful. It would also make embargos very useful, less hit and miss.


There are a ton of really great suggestions in this thread.

	31-05-2002 23:47									#21
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Would be nice on the Culture Advisor, where the buildings are shown with the total culture they have contributed to also show the rate at which they are currently adding to the total per turn number. Only way now is to try to count the "notes" on the domestic advisor screen. A little impractical when the number gets big.

Lot a good suggestions here.

	01-06-2002 00:10									#22
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by wrylachlan Also in the foreign advisor screen - Put embassy creation and espionage into the foreign relations screen. It's kind of stupid that I have to search around on the map to find the pentagon to do espionage. It should be linked right from the advisor screen, maybe you right click on the portrait and it gives you the option to establish embassy or plant spy. I don't know if this can be done since the rumor going around is that the AI doesn't really understand borders, but... I would love to have the military advisor warn me when an enemy is massing on the border. Here's the scenario - it is the late game in a huge map, the ai turn takes five minutes. I go get a coke, play a game of solitaire, come back, take a quick look at my production, see how longevity is coming, etc. Turn over. What I didn't notice is that the AI during its turn had moved a stack of 100 units to just their side of the border. I could've seen them if I'd looked, but tracing every inch of my border on a huge map is a ton of micromanagement. If the military advisor was doing his job he would have warned me - "Sir, the Romans are massing near Hyderabad" and I could have taken appropriate action. Again, it just saves on micromanagement.

On Espionage, can't you use the "E" on the right side of the Unit Box? Also, how about some way to determine if they are planning a sneak attack? Massing of troops on the border is a great sign, ala Civ 2; even if they are polite. I can't recall how many times the Polite civ sends troops either to my borders or next to my cities and then attacks.

I agree on the Military Advisor. I keep units active along the various edges of my borders for this reason, as well as to notice when I lose some territory to another civ's culture.

Cultural Advisor:

Maybe just on the map: Our cultural influence is shrinking. This would help prevent trespassing when the border flips. I used to find this out when Cleo would say I was trespassing, and I would have to track down the unit.

	01-06-2002 01:44									#23
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Good suggestions.

What I miss the most is an informative intelligence screen. Something that could inform me how many cities the enemy has, what techs he discovered so far, etc.

I also support the trade advisor enhancements. I'd like to see who trades what resource with whom. That is simply one of the most important strategic information you could have in the game.

Let's hope Firaxis listens to this.

	01-06-2002 02:06									#24
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i have sent a link to this thread to Dan Magaha... cause i like him the best out of all firaxis

sorry soren and mike.

	01-06-2002 02:17									#25
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Sorry Uber, but Jeff is the guy you should send this to. I'm working on other projects now and he is "The Man" as respects all things Civ III...

Dan

	01-06-2002 02:23									#26
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

The problem, Uber, is that the last time "we" sent a list of fixes to Firaxis, "we" wanted them not make Civ 2.5 but a revolutionary game. Now you and others have been, over the past 6 months, imploring them to bring back many of the Civ2 features? How can they not respond by throwing their hands up in the hair and muttering under their breaths?

Excellent list, by the way.

	01-06-2002 03:37									#27
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by civman2000 you can reposition the advisors???

Yeah. Just click and drag near the top of the box. But the next time it pops up, it will go back.

	01-06-2002 04:47									#28
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well, I actually like the web myself, as it's pretty easy to get the jist of everything at a glance, however, I've been using the D - Diplomacy screen a lot recently too.

Unless they manage to fit 16 spaces on the web (so you don't have to switch out) I'd go back to the Intelligence screen.

great ideas uber

	02-06-2002 06:27									#29
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the good ideas flow on.

	04-06-2002 01:24									#30
	Inflate your Upload Space

It annoys me to no end that the web isn't ever complete. I always play Huge civ games and even when I eliminate a civ, the others won't show up on the web (unless the game's down to say 8 civs). I recently went to war with the Aztecs and went to use my diplomatic connections to get everyone else to go to war with them. Turns out they were at war with 3 of those civs already. I didn't know who their allies were either. I'd have liked to know that....