31-05-2002 14:27									#1
	2nd city - 2nd settler Put an end to popups!

What do you do with your 2nd settler? I normally take it to build my 2nd city, but before that he has some special orders:
1. Look for a good city site
2. Build roads to the 2nd (planned) city
3. Open huts

My 2nd city will have at least 2 or 3 specials, maybe 4. Later it will become my 2nd wonder city (after the capital).

When I've got about 12 to 15 cities, the first two cities will build Wonders, 2 or 3 will build settlers, the others will produce caravans.

For the 1st and the 2nd city will be close to another (perhaps 10-12 squares between them), I stockpile most of the caravans between them. So they can reach each of these two cities in 2 turns

	31-05-2002 15:02									#2
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Close? 10-12 squares? I rarely build cities more than 4-5 squares apart. Too much barbarian activity in between otherwise.
I use the settler either to build improvements (OCC) or to find a nice spot not far away and settle there. If I don't find one soon (like I am almost done building a settler in the first city), I may keep it as a NON settler all the game.

	31-05-2002 15:10									#3
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The space between them will be filled with my 3rd or 4th city (settler from the capital or 2nd city). Since my capital has a good site, too (at least 2 or three specials), you must search a little bit for another good site.

	31-05-2002 15:34									#4
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Then you probably looked for a nice spot for a while. Unless OCC'ing, I will build pretty fast on whatever terrain there is (except in the middle of a spiceless marsh or desert or mountain range). Thus it is usually the 4th city which will be SCC with 3-4 specials . Maybe the fifth one, though it takes some time before you build the first wonder there.

	31-05-2002 19:23									#5
	Re: 2nd city - 2nd settler Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by ramses II. What do you do with your 2nd settler?

Settle! Popping huts with the second guy is often inadvisable. You can't get any NON explorers and barbs can appear if the level isn't raging. As for roads, well it depends, but they can usually wait. If your starting land is bad by all means explore, but after you found one the next shouldn't be that far behind.

	31-05-2002 21:05									#6
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As I would normally like to maximise the growth of my capital where the HG is going to be built - the second settler founds asap so as to start churning out Settlers ...

SG[1]

	02-06-2002 07:03									#7
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You grow the capital by adding Settlers produced in the second city? Before or after founding a third city?

	02-06-2002 15:32									#8
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Sorry, StrayBow, I must have been unclear - Capital growth is natural - get martial law, if there is a lot of food get a temple, then start a wonder - any wonder (it's going to become the Gardens) the second city pumps out the settlers to found until the desired base of cities has been established - this of course is very game dependant - then as soon as I start thinking "a few roads could be useful" I start thinking about can I grow the capital.
does that make it clearer?

SG[1]

	03-06-2002 04:31									#9
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Ah, so you don't build a settler with first city, which speeds growth. Gotcha.

[scribbles note to self] Didja do that in the Mad 2.42 Succession Game?

	04-06-2002 02:35									#10
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike and barbs can appear if the level isn't raging

Do you want to say that the chance for barbs from huts is lower with raging hordes?

quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare Close? 10-12 squares? I rarely build cities more than 4-5 squares apart.

4-5 squares?? Why so far?? 2-3 squares apart is good for first four cities.
Seriously now: I think it depends on the richness of the squares. 2-3 squares apart is good on a river (with grassland). Generally your first 4 cities should be effective if their size is 2: in other words they should have 2 appropriate external squares to work.

quote: Originally posted by SG[1] As I would normally like to maximise the growth of my capital where the HG is going to be built - the second settler founds asap so as to start churning out Settlers ...

But don't forget the effect of a settler built in a single city of size 1 - the city size isn't decreased.

	04-06-2002 03:17									#11
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Slowthinker: I don't know why I made a qualifier about the level of barb activity........must have not been paying attention.

My point was you can get barbs from huts after the first city is founded. It makes sense to pop huts before founding a city, because you can get non units and no barbs can be popped. Popping with the 2nd settler is usually not a good idea. Founding another city quickly is a good idea.

	04-06-2002 11:14									#12
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I also settle right away. I play perfectionist, but with rapid expansion in the early part of the game; a build order of warrior-settler-settler-phalanx-settler (the final settler being for irrigation, roads, etc.) works nicely in this regard.

	04-06-2002 23:12									#13
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In SP, I always wander with both to scope out the best location and trip some huts for NON units techs or Money. It's easy to catch up to the AI if you find any decent location. (since the AI is so pathetic at it. How many times do you see an AI city one square away from the middle of a great 4 special Pattern)

If I do get some money, I'll use the second settler to improve land and rush a settler prior to growth to take advantage of that cheat. It's great not losing the food in the box.
Heck in one game, I got so many techs from huts, that I cranked a settler, the next turn when it grew to two, I rejoined it to the cap, to make it size three, and had rep. real early and celebrated it earlier than I ever had. And I still had a non-settler. But against the AI, it really doesn't matter, it's only a matter of time before they're toast.

In MP, it's different. Find a trade special and get two cities down as fast as you can. I may delay building the first city for one turn to pick off a hut, but no more than that.

RAH

	05-06-2002 00:26									#14
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After many starts, I think I have evolved to a good method:
Use your settlers to explore terrain and tip some huts. Found your first city on the best spot you can find (some trade feature is a must). Look for a site that could be a super city. It needs some trade, and some shield producing capacity. Use your second settler to found a second city nearby without overlapping. This gets you a better start than keeping a NON unit. I really try to found on grassland to get the pop up to 2 so I can build another settler. Each city produces a warrior, then a settler which found cities 3 and 4 asap. I research horseback riding first, (then on to monarchy and trade) and my second unit is a horseman to defend against early barbarians. I then send out the warrior to explore. I stay at 4 cities until I get monarchy. The capitol starts a wonder in anticipation of Hanging gardens, and the others produce settlers which build roads to connect the cities and improve things waiting for monarchy. I try to build the three cities to surround the capitol.
Later, I find a spot which is within 3 squares of the capitol and one or more potential wonder building cities. I build a fortress there, and store my wonder caravans there. If needed, I can then build two wonders at once from this source.

	05-06-2002 02:00									#15
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nope.

plop and drop. Found cities asap.

	05-06-2002 02:29									#16
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I always store my caravans in the cities. With the schmucks that I play with, it's sometimes good to have a few extra defenders in your main cities.

RAH