01-06-2002 07:37									#31
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I think the costs would even out... Just compare the next ****-up on the NASA shuttle scale, and how much that costs...

Why is it important? Do you people realize how disadvantaged your scientists and engineers are? Science and engineering is done in metric. There is no argument there. If you are used to the metric system you have an innate understanding of scale, something you completely lack when you are only used to whatever archaic system you favor...


But of course, telling Joe Shmoe that he has to exercise his two befuddled braincells for the good of the country is un-american, isn't it?

	01-06-2002 08:05									#32
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"? Do you people realize how disadvantaged your scientists and engineers are? "

So what? Conversions are incredibly easy to pull off.

	01-06-2002 08:06									#33
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You shouldn't have to convert, the imperial system makes no sense.

America should have bit the bullet and converted long ago, like Canada.

	01-06-2002 08:06									#34
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I of course am American, and a stereotypically pig-headed, boastful American at that, and I think we should make the switch. I'll probably never be able to think in terms of metric, but hell, if we are the only true resister to a system the whole world has embraced, then we should go along. It'd make things much easier, especially in this time of globalization.

And I like the suggestion made earlier, we switch officially to metric, and you all switch your languages to English. I'd much rather learn meters and liters than German and French. Get moving, chop chop.

	01-06-2002 08:09									#35
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"But of course, telling Joe Shmoe that he has to exercise his two befuddled braincells for the good of the country is un-american, isn't it?"

Bah so if the rest of the world commits mass suicide I suppose we should as well? The "Everybody else" uses it excuse is crap. I think most americans understand the Metric system, hell they still teach it in science/math class dont they? I prefer ours. My car gets 17 miles to the gallon. And thats the way I like it!

	01-06-2002 08:10									#36
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Yes, we should go metric. It's long overdue. But I don't see it happening anytime soon.

	01-06-2002 08:14									#37
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quote: Originally posted by DarthVeda Hey if we go Metric, will the rest of Europe give something back and go English?

allready have

	01-06-2002 12:15									#38
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I hate the english system of messurements, I cant ever remember how and pints are in this and how many quarts are in that. Metric system is way better, allthough if we swicthed take me awile to get a feel for how long a meter is and a kilometer. In school we use metric system mostly, especially in science classes. The rest of the world uses the metric system, why cant we here in America? Dont understand, I guess people just dont want to change and want to stick to what they know. Even Britain were the English system came form is now using metric.

	01-06-2002 12:18									#39
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sorry dp

	01-06-2002 12:20									#40
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory "? Do you people realize how disadvantaged your scientists and engineers are? " So what? Conversions are incredibly easy to pull off.

I remember when that mission to mars failed because they forgot to convert the readings form english to metric. Millions of dollars down the tubes because we insist on using an archic measurement system, it would make it easier for a whole lot of thing if we went to metric, and metric is much easier to learn then the english system.

	01-06-2002 12:22									#41
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ick.. n/m

	01-06-2002 13:07									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat eg. NASA's Mars screwup. Case in point...

That was the damn manufacturers screwup. JPL works in metric and the specs were in metric.


I grew up with the British-American system. I think in it. It still sucks.

'I need a new pump please. 30 farquarts per fortnight are the specs.'

Those are real dimensions. Fortunately farguarts stayed in England and few Americans call two weeks a forthnight. Considering those two I understand why Britain abandoned the old one as they had an even worse mess than we do in the US. Gallons AND imperial gallons.

	01-06-2002 13:23									#43
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Faded:

quote: "? Do you people realize how disadvantaged your scientists and engineers are? " So what? Conversions are incredibly easy to pull off.

Faded, you are not an engineer then, I guess.

Sure, one conversion is fine. Maybe two. But when you have an equation with ten variables, and every single one of them has to be converted to metric, you not only increase the time it takes but you also vastly increase the possibility of a mistake.

And take my word for it, when you are studying a subject like regulation processing and you are laplace transforming 4x4 matrixes where each matrix element contains five or ten variables, just having to error check your solution one more time takes three or four hours... And most of the time just because you multiplied a stupid conversion factor instead of dividing.

Not that I expect you to get it... As long as you car does the 19 miles per gallon, those two braincells prefer to be in a comfortable resting state, I suspect...

	01-06-2002 13:25									#44
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ethelred, why does it matter whether it was the manufactorers fault? Except absolving NASA from blame, I mean.

	01-06-2002 13:43									#45
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quote: Originally posted by CyberGnu ethelred, why does it matter whether it was the manufactorers fault? Except absolving NASA from blame, I mean.

My sister-in-law works at JPL. Is that a good enough reason?

	01-06-2002 13:51									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Paul Hanson At least America is consistent in it's use of the imperial system (the British name for the English system). Britain itself is a mish-mash of the imperial and metric systems: I'm 6 feet tall, weigh 12 stone and live 3 miles from the nearest town, but my driveway is about 12 metres long and it's 8 degrees celsius outside. And this is how the British measure all these things.

I can convert the two pretty easily from one form to the other.

Off the top of my head:

12 stone = 75kg
6 feet = 1.75m
3 miles = just under 5km

12 metres = 13 yards
8 celsius = 45 farenheit

	01-06-2002 13:54									#47
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Apocalypse is right though.

A double login of mine opened a thread liek this almost 2 years ago. He was French.

	01-06-2002 14:08									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin I can convert the two pretty easily from one form to the other. Off the top of my head: 12 stone = 75kg 6 feet = 1.75m 3 miles = just under 5km 12 metres = 13 yards 8 celsius = 45 farenheit

Yeah, I think we in the UK can pretty much work in both measurements equally well, a real advantage at the moment IMO...

Imperial weights are an anachronism IMO, really a throwback to when the US were our colonial lackeys... In fact, apart from the fact that Imperial weights and measures are completely stupid, I would have thought that would have been reason enough for the US to take up metric.

It's just such a dumb system - I can't believe anyone made it up in the 1st place? And Fahrenheit as well, what the hell is that nonsense!!? At least with Celsius you know where you stand - 0 is freezing point and 100 is boiling. Simple!

I find it quite touching that the US would hold onto its colonial past like that - thanks guys, *sniff*

Also, as the years go by it will prove to be an achilles heel as the industrial powerhouses of Europe and China get their acts together and the US loses its economic ascendancy...

So please stay Imperial USA!

	01-06-2002 15:08									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Goingonit It's easier for America not to convert. When China surpasses America as the world's economic superpower, America will not have the power to stay imperial. The switch will just happen.

What insight! What power of the mind!

	01-06-2002 16:03									#50
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quote: Originally posted by MOBIUS And Fahrenheit as well, what the hell is that nonsense!!? At least with Celsius you know where you stand - 0 is freezing point and 100 is boiling. Simple!

IIRC its based on salt/sea water and body temperature - 0 being the freezing point of sea water, 100 is body temperature (when the scale was defined).

	01-06-2002 16:13									#51
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quote: IIRC, metric was officially introduced by Napolean. The U.S. was on the other side of an ocean, so our isolation kept us from seeing its advantages. It wasn't until after WWII that we began bumping up against it.

(threadjacking mode on)
No, it was 1793, when French had new goverment, new money, new calendar...
List goes on and on, but most of those got lost in the reign of Napoleon.

quote: IIRC its based on salt/sea water and body temperature - 0 being the freezing point of sea water, 100 is body temperature (when the scale was defined).

92 is the temperature of the coldest stuff that Fahrenheit knew that time
... Fahrenheit firstly wanted to use just 12-degrees based system,
but then noticed that using them would be impossible with such large scales...
(NOT sure about those numbers thought.)

	01-06-2002 16:33									#52
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Fahrenheit wanted it to be easy to calibrate a thermometer anywhere.
So for 0 degrees he used the coldest he could possibly get in his lab, a salt/water/alcohol mix IIRC.
For 100 degrees, he chose another universal constant, human body temperature. (he must have had a slight fever on that day)

	01-06-2002 17:26									#53
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I say Yanks should keep their English system. Makes it so much easier it BS when turning in iffy numbers on performance reports:

- Ehh, are you sure 'about these numbers?
- Sure thing. They're metric, you know.
- Oh, I see. Great!

I've done this with numbers where the units in questions were money and percentages...

	01-06-2002 17:38									#54
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Engineers and scientists in America primarily use the metric system. The English system is just used for roads, basic home construction, and people's vital statistics. It would be too difficult for people to get used to the metric system. Why change something just to appease some canucks?

	01-06-2002 17:40									#55
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The metric system just uses the same increments for its divisions. It isn't any more accurate than any other system, just easier to convert between levels of division.

	01-06-2002 18:10									#56
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It's actually more accurate because the ways that SI units are defined now.

	01-06-2002 18:48									#57
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You mean by circular defintion.

	01-06-2002 22:05									#58
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Not.

	01-06-2002 22:37									#59
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Ethelred, that a good enough reason :-)

Why don't you ICQ me her name, maybe I'll run into her. I'm at Caltech, postdocing in the Goddard group.

	01-06-2002 22:43									#60
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quote: Fortunately farguarts stayed in England and few Americans call two weeks a forthnight

Never even heard of a farguat, but use "fortnight" as much as "week" or "month".