01-06-2002 22:57									#61
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Most things are given in both English and Metric. Over time, we'll move to the metric, so it's all good. No need for the gov't to be coercive.

	01-06-2002 23:02									#62
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I'm definitely not american and I hate the metric system. The Americans should continue their way of success.

	01-06-2002 23:04									#63
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quote: Originally posted by rah Yep, they tried, didn't work. People are always more comfortable with what they're familiar with. What I find amusing, is the iritation it causes some poeple. It's worth keeping it for that alone. Get over it. RAH

yeah...it has that value of pssing off the Euro-weenies. I'm pretty ambivalent about the death penalty or gun control. But I enjoy letting them sputter, when we decide to do something different in our own country.

	01-06-2002 23:14									#64
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse We changed 30 years ago. It wasn't that big a deal. I never knew Americans were so math-deficient...

Has nothing to do with math. People can adjust to kph and to Celcius.

The issue is with tooling. There is actually some federal law which requires metric units on government parts. So what happens is that you get a lot of silly parts labeled 2.54 cm.

When and if America decides to bite the bullet and switch all the nuts, bolts, bricks and lumber to metric standards, it will have a significant cost. Not saying it won't happen or might not be worth it (that's an interesting argument). Just saying that the cost will be significant.

As an aside, I wonder if you all up there really use metric standards for stuff. Don't you have to keep English wrenches and stuff?

	01-06-2002 23:19									#65
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The railways are still gauged to imperial measure, all across Europe (couple of exceptions). You can thank the British engineers for that.

	01-06-2002 23:23									#66
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quote: Besides, when you do 120 on a US highway, you really feel the speed!

But we in metric countries will be travelling at the same speed, but doing 160

quote: There is actually some federal law which requires metric units on government parts. So what happens is that you get a lot of silly parts labeled 2.54 cm.

"cm" aren't officially part of the metric system - it being based on lots of 1000, and cm meaning "a hundreth". Not sure of my point (its 4:30 am here), but just though that was something interesting to bring up.

	01-06-2002 23:28									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns quote: Besides, when you do 120 on a US highway, you really feel the speed! But we in metric countries will be travelling at the same speed, but doing 160

More like 190 I'd have thought.

	02-06-2002 00:13									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns "cm" aren't officially part of the metric system - it being based on lots of 1000, and cm meaning "a hundreth". Not sure of my point (its 4:30 am here), but just though that was something interesting to bring up.

Better to spare us such trivial insights/remarks. Go to bed.

	02-06-2002 06:47									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Engineers and scientists in America primarily use the metric system. The English system is just used for roads, basic home construction, and people's vital statistics. It would be too difficult for people to get used to the metric system. Why change something just to appease some canucks?

Why? Because Americans are stupid???

*Note* This is just a logical conclusion considering all us Euros and Canadians have managed it perfectly easily...

quote: yeah...it has that value of pssing off the Euro-weenies. I'm pretty ambivalent about the death penalty or gun control. But I enjoy letting them sputter, when we decide to do something different in our own country.

You're not doing anything different, we are!

You're the ones stuck in the past with a dinosaur.

If you think that p*sses me off, think again. I gave my own reasons why I think it's a good thing that the US keeps with metric...

Hell, I grew on Imperial. I can do both equally well (it wasn't too 'difficult' for me ), I like coming to the US to be reminded nostalgicly of a bygone era...

Doesn't p*ss us off GP, we just think it's, er quaint. Yes, quaint that you guys want to hold onto your last vestiges of dominion by your mother country in the face of progress...

	02-06-2002 07:09									#70
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quote: Science and engineering is done in metric.

What? Say that again?

Not ALL engineering is done in metric. In some fields where the Americans have set the standards, all engineers intrenationally use imperial units. Refrigeration is a classic example. I have in front of me a pressure - enthalphy diagram of refrigerant R-12:

temperature in Farenheit.
volume in ft3/lb
entropy in BTU/lb/R
pressure in lbs/in2
enthalpy in BTU/lb

It all works fine, untill you have to do an energy balance equation in klioJoules.

	02-06-2002 07:21									#71
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do you know how to convert tons of refrigeration?

	02-06-2002 07:29									#72
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Not out of my head. I'll have to look it up.

	02-06-2002 07:48									#73
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quote: Originally posted by GP Has nothing to do with math. People can adjust to kph and to Celcius. The issue is with tooling. There is actually some federal law which requires metric units on government parts. So what happens is that you get a lot of silly parts labeled 2.54 cm. When and if America decides to bite the bullet and switch all the nuts, bolts, bricks and lumber to metric standards, it will have a significant cost. Not saying it won't happen or might not be worth it (that's an interesting argument). Just saying that the cost will be significant. As an aside, I wonder if you all up there really use metric standards for stuff. Don't you have to keep English wrenches and stuff?

Machine shops keep complete sets of metric and standard sizes. Everybody knows what an inch and a pound are and that 90 F is a hot day, but you buy gas by the litre.

Meats are packaged dual-system, but cereal's by the gram only...

I would think that most machine shops down there are already stocked with both systems.

	02-06-2002 08:32									#74
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Machine shops keep complete sets of metric and standard sizes. Everybody knows what an inch and a pound are and that 90 F is a hot day, but you buy gas by the litre. Meats are packaged dual-system, but cereal's by the gram only... I would think that most machine shops down there are already stocked with both systems.

Well...studies have been done showing that it would be a huge cost to actually change all the parts over to metric. It's more than just an issue of having metric and standard wrenches. It's the parts themselves and all the associated peices. Construction is the hardest to change, I understand.

For instance if we were to use metric sizes for bricks it would be a real hard changeover. That's why we have all these wierd parts that are metric labeled but have English round number unit measures.

	02-06-2002 09:09									#75
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From what I've seen there isn't that much of a problem. Things seem to have shaken themselves out. People are more adaptable than you give them credit for, but they won't change unless given a little push. My father's generation thinks in inches, mine thinks in cms. We didn't exactly shove it down everyvody's throats; we gave ourselves time to change. Seems to be the same course that you guys are supposed to be taking, but you haven't really started on it yet...

	02-06-2002 13:09									#76
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While we're talking Pulp Fiction dialogues, why not switch over to Reservoir Dogs dialogues. They happen to be a little more explicit in choice of words.

	02-06-2002 15:01									#77
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I guess it really comes down to the US not really needing to change.

We use each system when most appropriate.

	02-06-2002 21:48									#78
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse From what I've seen there isn't that much of a problem. Things seem to have shaken themselves out. People are more adaptable than you give them credit for, but they won't change unless given a little push. My father's generation thinks in inches, mine thinks in cms. We didn't exactly shove it down everyvody's throats; we gave ourselves time to change. Seems to be the same course that you guys are supposed to be taking, but you haven't really started on it yet...

I can't really argue with "seems to".

I will tell you that I wish it were true. (Your side of the argument.) But based on the one study that I saw (a while ago admittedly), I'd want to see something a bit better than "seems to " logic. I need to see another study.

p.s. I bet if you go into construction or heavy industry, you will find people using English units. A little more engineering and less physics would expose you to this. Do some consulting or part-time work when you're at UT. I bet you see what I mean.

Heck even Axi uses English units for HVAC.

	02-06-2002 22:04									#79
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I have yet to read a single American Physics/Geophysics research paper from the last 30 years that has anything but metric units, degrees Kelvin/Celsius etc. Leading science has already passed on imperial - how long will it take every other sector?

	03-06-2002 02:47									#80
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Scientists are often marvelously clueless about how much engineering and commerce differ from academia.

"Experts often wrongly assume expertise outside their field. The more narrow the expertise, the more likely the offense." -Some famous person

	03-06-2002 03:18									#81
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how many inches in a yard? how many yards in a mile?

and is there anything smaller than an inch that people work with?

	03-06-2002 03:21									#82
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quote: how many inches in a yard?

36

quote: how many yards in a mile?

1760

Something smaller? Half-inch?

	03-06-2002 03:30									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus and is there anything smaller than an inch that people work with?

Machinists use "thou"s; thousandths of an inch. Convenientish scale...

1mm = ~39.4 thous, IIRC.

	03-06-2002 03:31									#84
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quote: Something smaller? Half-inch?

That's as pointless as the 30cm example you gave.

Anyway, let's recap.

1 km = 1,000 m = 10,000 dm = 100,000 cm
1 mile = 1,760 yards = 5,280 feet = 63,360 inches

well, I know what's easier to convert


In short: imperial system is difficult to convert (compared to the metric system) and doesn't have certain standard sizes to use that you do have in the metric system (like mm)

	03-06-2002 03:33									#85
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quote: Machinists use "thou"s; thousandths of an inch. Convenientish scale...

sounds rather...metric

	03-06-2002 03:34									#86
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A "mil" is a thousandth of an inch. That is a unit used in most machine shops. All old lathes and stuff are english units. (And lathes last for 50 years...so most of the machines are old.) If you want to do metric work, you have to do conversions.

	03-06-2002 03:36									#87
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quote: A "mil" is a thousandth of an inch. That is a unit used in most machine shops. All old lathes and stuff are english units. (And lathes last for 50 years...so most of the machines are old.) If you want to do metric work, you have to do conversions

They called them thous where I was.

And they had 2 metric lathes and 4 standard lathes...

	03-06-2002 03:36									#88
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oops x-posted with kitty.

	03-06-2002 03:42									#89
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse quote: A "mil" is a thousandth of an inch. That is a unit used in most machine shops. All old lathes and stuff are english units. (And lathes last for 50 years...so most of the machines are old.) If you want to do metric work, you have to do conversions They called them thous where I was.

close enough. Your memory might be better. Never mind...both are in the dictionary.

quote: And they had 2 metric lathes and 4 standard lathes...

Right. 4/6 > 50%, = most.

	03-06-2002 03:44									#90
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I was demonstrating gradual phasing out. You have to take first steps first, though, like actually introducing the general pop. to metric system. IMHO, that's the easiest and quickest part; it's the initial stimulus that will drive the rest of the transformation, and unless you do it you'll be stuck with 19th century units forever...