02-06-2002 02:50									#1
	Retreat Mars Full PM-box? Change here!

Hi!

Now we all know there's lots of water on Mars. There's a thin atmospehere. Of course there's sun light and minerals.

An autonomous, indepent colony on Mars is technologically possible, it could even become the base of a longterm (pretty longterm) terraforming effort.

Completely casting aside the issues of economical value, cost and political discord on our own world, consider this:

As a retreat for mankind, or at least a chosen few, Mars should be "colonized". At least one permanent , selfsustaining colony settlement should be made, for research, etc. This settlement should be continually grown, and be given ressources (for mining etc.) to allow itself to grow. This should ensure mankind's survival in case of some apocalytic catastrophy on Earth (say dino style meteor impact).

I know you Alpha Centauri fans are "out there"! What's your opinion?

	02-06-2002 02:50									#2
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Chairman Yang will be there first.

	02-06-2002 03:01									#3
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What's the point?

If humanity is to have a future we need to go much further afield, so why **** around on Mars?

	02-06-2002 03:06									#4
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Depends. Who's civilization will have an insurance policy on mars?

	02-06-2002 03:08									#5
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but bugs, we currently don't have engins to get out of the solar system at once. We'll have to planet hop for a while. plus , any outer solar system solution would be habitable for quite a while in human terms.

	02-06-2002 03:10									#6
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So will the one we're currently on. Planet hopping is a waste of time- it's like thinking you've got a better chance of swimming the Pacific if you enter the water running really fast.

	02-06-2002 03:10									#7
	Re: Retreat Mars Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Korpo Hi! Now we all know there's lots of water on Mars. There's a thin atmospehere. Of course there's sun light and minerals. An autonomous, indepent colony on Mars is technologically possible, it could even become the base of a longterm (pretty longterm) terraforming effort. Completely casting aside the issues of economical value, cost and political discord on our own world, consider this: As a retreat for mankind, or at least a chosen few, Mars should be "colonized". At least one permanent , selfsustaining colony settlement should be made, for research, etc. This settlement should be continually grown, and be given ressources (for mining etc.) to allow itself to grow. This should ensure mankind's survival in case of some apocalytic catastrophy on Earth (say dino style meteor impact). I know you Alpha Centauri fans are "out there"! What's your opinion?

I think colonization could only take place if there was some economic incentive for people to go there permanently, and not just as part of government mission. The colonists would have to be given legal rights to develop mines, agriculture, water excavation. In this manner, a great deal of private financing could come into play to make colonization a reality.

However, for this to happen, there will have to be fundamental change in the Outer Space Treaty which currently forbids claims of sovereignty, which is essential to provide private grants of rights.

	02-06-2002 03:13									#8
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Mars is too small for all of us anyway. Let us just send the Americans there to pollute it, I guess the rest of us can get this one to recover

	02-06-2002 03:13									#9
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On Mars we now have info, that is achievable to colonize it. We still have no knowledge about habitable, colonizable or terraformable planets in any other systems. All provable planetary bodies in other systems are Jupiter size or larger (only detectable because of the great gravitational impact they have on their stars). So we should by now stick to the possible colonization site we know and can reach. Other possible sites are on Jupiter moons or Saturn moons, but we don't have enough data about them and they are harder to reach.

	02-06-2002 03:15									#10
	Re: Retreat Mars Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Korpo This settlement should be continually grown, and be given ressources (for mining etc.) to allow itself to grow. This should ensure mankind's survival in case of some apocalytic catastrophy on Earth (say dino style meteor impact).

The Martian base would be far more likely be wiped out by an apocalypse than the entire population base of Earth.

	02-06-2002 03:16									#11
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SD - the first of 2 sent History Line tracks has arrived. It is... a bit odd, I don't think the guys hit every tone as supposed...

	02-06-2002 03:18									#12
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There are no lyrics.

	02-06-2002 03:20									#13
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lol, I'm talking about the instrumental melodies... farked up

Oh, erm... carbone dioxide in the air, yeah!

	02-06-2002 03:31									#14
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I'd love to see permanent habitation of the earth's Lagrange points, the Moon and Mars. One of the issues that hasn't been addressed yet is that the earth has a huge honking magnetic field around it. It, along with our atmosphere, protects us from most cosmic radiation. What have we got to protect people who go further afield?

It may be that permanent habitation of another space station orbiting earth is a more realistic option for now.

	02-06-2002 03:31									#15
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About minimizing probabilities:

Mars and Earth get destroyed: a lot more improbable.. spread your risks. If both get busted we couldn't do anything about it. At least not now. Back to the original point.

	02-06-2002 03:46									#16
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There'd still be Venus left.

	02-06-2002 03:57									#17
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quote: Originally posted by RedFred I'd love to see permanent habitation of the earth's Lagrange points, the Moon and Mars. One of the issues that hasn't been addressed yet is that the earth has a huge honking magnetic field around it. It, along with our atmosphere, protects us from most cosmic radiation. What have we got to protect people who go further afield? It may be that permanent habitation of another space station orbiting earth is a more realistic option for now.

Redfred, What happens to people exposed to cosmic radiation?

	02-06-2002 03:59									#18
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ermm, the Earth Lagrange point to Mars??? how can this be???

	02-06-2002 04:00									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny So will the one we're currently on. Planet hopping is a waste of time- it's like thinking you've got a better chance of swimming the Pacific if you enter the water running really fast.

A better analogy would be that you have a better chance of swimming the Pacific if you practice over short distances and slowly build up.

	02-06-2002 04:05									#20
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Space stations have to solve all possible problems that could threaten human survival at once and cannot grow out of themselves (no raw material). Colonial sites on Mars or other celestial bodies could use already given ressources like magnetic field, atmosphere, minerals etc.

	02-06-2002 05:12									#21
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You could always use simple Mass, as a Radiation/Meteor Shield.

It's better than using Rock.

It's Transparent, and on a Planetary Body, Self-Supporting, via Molecular Attraction.

	02-06-2002 05:26									#22
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Read: Planetary body.

	02-06-2002 05:44									#23
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I think this is very possible, and not too expensive, although it would take a while and current off-the-shelf technology would have to improve.

The key is to have robots on Mars that have defined and simple tasks and that would work together in some fashion. These would prepare the way for human habitation sometime in the future. For instance, you would need a couple different kinds of dig-bots, water heater bots, and concrete bots.

Thing is, why would anybody want to spend time on Mars, when the Earth is so nice? As Bugs says, there's gotta be some reason to go and stay.

	02-06-2002 05:47									#24
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Von Neumann Machines?

	02-06-2002 05:52									#25
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What about them?

	02-06-2002 05:53									#26
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Currently the economic strength of earth cant support a martian terraforming effort at the moment. Not in our lifetimes.

Btw China wanted to go on the moon. Mars is way out of our reach right now unfortunately.

	02-06-2002 05:54									#27
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What have computers to do with that in special?

	02-06-2002 05:59									#28
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Ide be more worried about cross contanimation between the planets. What if there is some super martian microbe out there that gets brought back?

What if there is life on mars? Just not Carbon based?

	02-06-2002 06:01									#29
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Why shouldn't it be possible?

Developing and building the spacecraft: 10 - 15 years, NASA guesses that's possible.

Where we can go we can build stuff, especially if we ind ways to use Mars ressources.

Gene alteration in bacteria is nearly commonplace in bioengineering. Terraforming bacteria could be introduced by now . Larger terraforming efforts may be staged later. I didn't say we're likely to see a terraformed Mars in our lifetime. But it is possible to start terraforming the Mars in ... say: two decades. Besides: introducing basic, simple life should prove easy. Life is the quickest way to produce the basis for another life, proven by evolution.

	02-06-2002 06:04									#30
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Cross contamination could be avoided by making it a one-way trip .. at least till safety is assured. This does fit well into what I said about self-sustaining.

I still want to know what Von-Neumann-Machines (read: computers) have to do with it, Zaphod? Trying to be funny?