03-06-2002 00:23									#1
	What's good about Civ3 then? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I loved Civ2 and I currently play CTP2 which I think is brilliant and I'm considering getting Civ3 but so far all I've heard is that it's a bit crap. So what's good about it and why should I get it?

	03-06-2002 01:10									#2
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Hmmmm, personnally I like CTP2 more then Civ3 but I just might change my mind after the expansion pack is released. I can think of a half dozen things I think are better done in CTP2 then in Civ3, however, there are a few things I like about Civ3 that CTP2 just doesn't offer.
1) Strategic Resources.
2) Improved AI negotiations.
3) Better graphics.

That said CTP2 has a scripting language and Civ3 doesn't so CTP2 is ALWAYS improving while I don't we'll be able to say the same thing about Civ3 a year from now.

	03-06-2002 01:29									#3
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Thanks. Is there a topic or review anywhere that compares the two?

	03-06-2002 01:34									#4
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Not really. The best way to get a feel for the two games, that I think of, would be to read both the Civ3 and CTP2 forums here at Apolyton. That way you will be able to hear how the fans of each game stack things up.

In the end I'd say they ae both good games but CTP2 is slightly better. It's possible that PtW will change this though.

	03-06-2002 01:40									#5
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I've been having a look round the forums and been reading reviews etc and it looks quite good so I'll probably end up buying it.

What's this PTW thing?

	03-06-2002 01:49									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Civ3: Play the World is the up coming expansion pack for Civ3. No body really knows what will or won't be included in it but I'm hoping they will include many of the CTP2 style improvements that were left out of Civ3.

	03-06-2002 01:58									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

it'll have MP and a decent scenario editor, both of which were promised to be in the original game, and thats what matters.

	03-06-2002 02:38									#8
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Wait for PTW to come out... you might get a deal on Civ3 and PTW together, which is a lot better than getting them seperately. If you do get Civ3, remember to make downloading the Patches your #1 task (although PTW may come with 1.21).

	03-06-2002 02:56									#9
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If you buy PTW you shouldn't need Civ3 ...unless Firaxis intends to continue their policy of corporate thievery by requiring people to have Civ3 to be able to play PTW.

	03-06-2002 03:58									#10
	Put an end to popups!

ptw is an expansion pack. there is a 98.743% chance of ptw requiring the original civ3

	03-06-2002 04:23									#11
	Re: What's good about Civ3 then? Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Turambar I loved Civ2 and I currently play CTP2 which I think is brilliant and I'm considering getting Civ3 but so far all I've heard is that it's a bit crap. So what's good about it and why should I get it?

I LOVED Civ 2, but I would NOT get Civ 3. I'm sorry I did. Maybe in several more months when EVERYTHING is in one package (including scenario-building and cheat mode) and selling for $35 or less you might consider it.

I wish I waited a year instead of getting their beta game last November for fifty bucks.

But I consider concepts such as Culture Flipping and Settler Diarrhea to be so flawed, and naval warfare and espionage so pathetic, the game is perhaps unable to be saved if they remain.

Try Europa Universalis if you want a more challenging, less dumbed down game.

Just my advice.

	03-06-2002 04:24									#12
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick If you buy PTW you shouldn't need Civ3 ...unless Firaxis intends to continue their policy of corporate thievery by requiring people to have Civ3 to be able to play PTW.

"Corporate thievery".

Indeed. I think I'll borrow that one!

	03-06-2002 04:41									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick If you buy PTW you shouldn't need Civ3 ...unless Firaxis intends to continue their policy of corporate thievery by requiring people to have Civ3 to be able to play PTW.

erm...I'm confused. What makes you think that you can play an expansion pack without having the original game?

	03-06-2002 04:49									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: What makes you think that you can play an expansion pack without having the original game?

nothing, he probably wanted to use the words "corporate", "thievery" and "firaxis" somehow

	03-06-2002 04:54									#15
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zulu, jt is trolling.

I would say: buy the game. It has, after all, some improvements when compared to civ2 and also CTP2. One of the things you will notice immediately is the improved AI. Much better than CTP2's AI, even if you take into account the wonderful work the modders managed to do with CTP2.

But you could wait for PTW. Civ3 will probably be a better bargain by the time the expansion pack is released.

	03-06-2002 04:56									#16
	Inflate your Upload Space

what's trolling?

	03-06-2002 05:01									#17
	Suffering from ads?

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame29.html

	03-06-2002 05:05									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

That is one cool website!

	03-06-2002 05:08									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Well I personaly hate civ2, I must have spent near on 4-5 thousand hours playing civ2 - ive had civ3 6 months and have probably spent 20 - 30 hours on it - The figures speak for themselves.

I looked forward to civ3 for well over year and am so disapointed, I wouldn't believe I would say this but I will definately not waste my money on PTW - I'm waiting for CTP?

If you want a decent game, decent oponents join us for online CTP2 games.


Sid you sold your soul and ripped us off (should have play tested it more).

	03-06-2002 05:25									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: ive had civ3 6 months and have probably spent 20 - 30 hours on it

quote: ripped us off

30£ for 20 hours is 1.5£/hour

i think movie tickets in the UK is at around 4£
that's at best 2£/hour

you should complain about ticket prices every time you go to see a movie

	03-06-2002 07:14									#21
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I think Civ3 is great... but I do respect the views of those who wanted more (more complexity, more editor functionality, MP).

I would advise you to buy it if:
* You're ready to NOT play Civ2.
* You want to prep for MP.

Otherwise, wait for PTW to come out, as well as the next few patches.

	03-06-2002 07:19									#22
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by cyclotron7 Wait for PTW to come out... you might get a deal on Civ3 and PTW together, which is a lot better than getting them seperately. If you do get Civ3, remember to make downloading the Patches your #1 task (although PTW may come with 1.21).

PC gamers are very spoiled IMO. We demand tens of thousands of hours out of a 50 dollar purchase than complain when more money is asked of us to stay up to date.

Also I have seen many many PC games that have had a much larger amount of bugs than civ 3. Its pretty solid compared to say EU...

Those are rants for another day


Good things about civ3-

1) resources/trading system
2) civ traits (though perhaps unbalanced)
3) map generator
4) culture
5) Tech tree (IMO)
6) Different epochs
7) AI and it doesnt cheat nearly as much as in other games
8) Extreme Moding *potential* We will see though...
9) Its definately not going to be abandoned by Firaxis


Bad things

1) Combat system needs work.
2) Less functionality than smac
3) Why the AI doesnt agree to mutually agreable trades (ie "They will be insulted when I try to trade 100 gold for 100 gold")
4) Interface needs a little work. (just an annoyance though)
5) 8 bit graphics (though decent 8 bit graphics)
6) Leaders idea underdeveloped, armies suck.
7) Late game tedium not addressed

All in all I givi civ3 a 90%. Some of the bad things are minor or hard to deal with.

	03-06-2002 07:30									#23
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IMO, I much prefer Civ3 over Civ2. It improves on a lot of stuff, and when everyone complains and says they'll never play the game ever again, I just think they're overexagerating and are cheating themselves out of the best game to come around. plus, the graphix are pretty nice.

BTW, most reviews I've seen gave it ~90%.

	03-06-2002 09:24									#24
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

MarkG,

Just curious...have you tried any of the latest CTP2 Mods???

	03-06-2002 12:31									#25
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

hex, i havent played ctp2 since civ3(just like i didnt play any smac after ctp2 and any civ2 after smac )

actually i didnt have time to play any computer game the last 3 months

	03-06-2002 15:05									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I think Civ3 is pretty good after the 1.21f patch. I had breaks for Civ2, SMAC and even CtP2 before, but with the latest patch I have no desire to play other Civ games anymore. It's well balanced now and constantly gets polished. I think PTW will have the potential to be a true gem.

But on the other hand I can understand those, who complain about missing features and a streamlined and oversimplified game. Their complaints are rightful, but... I think, TBS games are basically computer aided board games, and board games should have a simple ruleset. Look at chess. Only 6 unit types, a plain 8x8 map with all tiles the same, but what a strategical depth! SMAC is a great game, true, but playing it I miss that board game feeling, so I can't play it for long. Civ2 gives me that board game feeling, but it has other weak points, for instance that annoying city based unit upkeep or the "defeat the toughest defender kills the entire stack" system. CtP2 was an awful game when it came out, several mods made a halfway decent game out of it, but I get quickly bored of such annoyances like slavery and stealth units. Public works are nice, but... compared with Civ3's ethnic workers they're boring. It's often called modability is worthless for me, I'm not a modder and don't use it anyway. And I don't fear the often called 200 workers, since in the late game I can automate them to build railroads and clear pollution, they do a reasonable job, so no excessive micromanagement needed.

People who can't accept Civ3 like it is, should not buy it. Want a classic? Go for Civ and Civ2. Want a futuristic game with lots of features and complex rules? Buy SMAC. Do you like invisible clerics and attorneys and a game with many different faces (mods)? Buy CtP2.

Civ3 has many interesting features, like culture and strategic resources. It has also weak points, like unbalanced and quite random culture flipping, broken unit upgrade lines etc., and it's quite streamlined. If you can accept this, buy it.

	03-06-2002 16:14									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Firstly, I must state people tend to have their opinions too much different both about CtP 2 and Civ 3. If you want to mod the game, get CtP 2. If you want to have a great gaming experience with an excellent AI, get Civ 3. Enough said.

Markos, what's the last time you played Civ, eh? I guess running Apolyton doesn't leave time to.

	03-06-2002 16:45									#28
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by MarkG ptw is an expansion pack. there is a 98.743% chance of ptw requiring the original civ3

The chance of not requiring the original game to use the expansion pack would then be about the odds of a fortified veteran warrior across a river successfully defending against an elite cavalry attack.

Not good.

	03-06-2002 17:13									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Not good

expansion packs are not sequels. they are expansion packs. the word expansion requires something to exist so that it can be expanded

	03-06-2002 17:26									#30
	Increase Your PM Length

Not all expansion packs require the original product.