04-06-2002 05:33									#1
	Civ Traits for PTW Civs Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Here are the civ traits which I think will be associated with each of the new civs on PTW.

Vikings - Militaristic, Expansionist
The Vikings were known for their strong army and they were some of the worlds greatest explorers, eventually making Settlements in Iceland, the New World, and Russia. They also explored the Mediterranean and raided Visigoth camps in Iberia.

Carthagenians - Commercial, Expansionist
The Carthagenians were one of the worlds first naval powers whos ships carried cargo far and wide. They also settled in North Africa, Spain, Sardinia, and Sicily

Spanish - Religious, Militaristic
The Spanish conquistadors single-handedly conquered all of Latin America in the name of God and country.

Mongols - Militaristic, Commercial
Their 'hordes of horsemen' created the worlds largest empire. They also traded with Marco Polo
I was gonna say originally Militaristic, Expansionist, but I don't think that they would include two civs with the same traits.

Celts - Religious, Expansionist
These guys believed in their village shaman (Panoramix). Not sure about the expansionist part

Koreans - Scientific, Industrious
Invented Ironclad and printing press. Not sure about Industrious. Maybe Yin can tell us about them.

Incans - Scientific, Religious
The Incans had a very accurate calendar, and beleived in a plethora of gods and goddess

Whats the last civ?

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	04-06-2002 06:49									#2
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No one knows for sure who the last civ is, smart money right now is on either the Koreans, or Hebrews, with the Inca still having an outside chance.
Here's my take on the Civ specific traits
Spanish- Religious, Militaristic (just like their dear friends, the Aztecs )
Mongols- Militaristic, Expansionist
Vikings- Expansionist, Commerical
Celts (and no, i'm still not calling them the Gauls)- Religious, industrious (they built stone hedge and stuff )
Carthage- Commercial, industrious (I don't know what else they would be besides commercial and someone else needed the industrious trait)
Ottomans- scientific, militaristic
Arabs- Religious, expansionist

------------------
Hebrews- Religious, Commercial
Koreans- Scientific, religious
Inca- Industrious, scientific

	04-06-2002 06:51									#3
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You had mistake from in civ3 terms. 'Expansionist' not means that but only explorative ability and good traders. 'Commercial' not means that but extra trade bonus and decreasing corruption.
The last, corruption, developed for managing size of empire. So decreased corruption = biggest empire.

Conclude: for Carthage, Spain and Mongolia need 'Commercial' ability for real expansivity because they got largest empires in world.

	04-06-2002 07:03									#4
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The only business that the Spanish did was war. But I do see your point.

"Spanish- Religious, Militaristic (just like their dear friends, the Aztecs ) "
How ironic.

	04-06-2002 07:11									#5
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"they built stone hedge and stuff"

Sorry, I don't usually nitpick spelling, but I think this is really funny. It's Stone HeNge by the way, not your neighbour's garden

	04-06-2002 07:21									#6
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quote: Originally posted by punkbass2000 "they built stone hedge and stuff" Sorry, I don't usually nitpick spelling, but I think this is really funny. It's Stone HeNge by the way, not your neighbour's garden

Heh, heh, sorry about that.

	04-06-2002 07:50									#7
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Overall, I pretty much agree with your speculations. You're assuming however that each new civ will have two traits. But Firaxis may well try to surprise us. Maybe some civs will have one trait, instead of two. Spain, for example, could be an expansionist civ, and nothing else. Of course, you can't give one trait to a civ, and leave it at that. Maybe Spain could start with more money, or with an additional settler. Moreover, Firaxis could add new civ traits (but that's unlikely...).

	04-06-2002 08:01									#8
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The problem with that Nostromo is that while most civ traits will last throughout the game, more money will not. But it is a possibility

	04-06-2002 08:39									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Hurrying Heinz The problem with that Nostromo is that while most civ traits will last throughout the game, more money will not. But it is a possibility

Yes, most civ traits will last throughout the game, but not all of them. The expansionist trait is a case in point. After the expansion phase of the game is over, it becomes useless. BTW the morganites faction in SMAC had extra money at the start. I don't know, however, if all that extra money was really worthwhile. I only played with the morganites once or twice.

	04-06-2002 08:55									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Every civ follows the same basic recipe: they all have two civ traits and one unique unit. I just hope that Firaxis will change the recipe a bit to spice things up. If they follow the same recipe to create the new civs, these will be pretty boring IMO. How about a civ with one civ trait and two UU's? Or how about a civ with one civ trait, but with two settlers at the start?

	04-06-2002 09:09									#11
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Perhaps Firaxis has added a few new traits in the PTW?

	04-06-2002 09:10									#12
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Bonus start money would be useful... you could set your research higher or buy cheap techs off other civs.

	04-06-2002 09:55									#13
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Oh no, people! I mysel love maritime trait. Carthage, Spain, France, England and maybe Arabs...
And let they rename 'Expansionist' to 'Trader' and 'Commercial' to 'Imperial' or something.

	04-06-2002 10:12									#14
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This is what I might be thinking, though I am doubtful with some of them.

Spanish - Militaristic, Religious
Arabs - Expansionist, Religious
Mongols - Militaristic, Expansionist
Carthaginians - Commercial, Expansionist
Celts (NOT Gauls, CELTS!!!) - Religious, Industrious
Koreans - Scientific, Industrious (if they get included)
Incas (hopefully included) - Scientific, Religious
Vikings - Militaristic, Commercial

that is, if they don't include new traits.

	04-06-2002 10:24									#15
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Those are very good Lord Az, I think they are actually better than mine even.
The one thing I would tweak is give Incas industrious rather than religious simply because so many other civs already have the religious trait. Plus, the Inca built Macchu Pichu, a strong network of roads, etc. So I think Industrious would fit them very well.

	04-06-2002 12:09									#16
	Re: Civ Traits for PTW Civs Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Hurrying Heinz Here are the civ traits which I think will be associated with each of the new civs on PTW. Vikings - Militaristic, Expansionist The Vikings were known for their strong army and they were some of the worlds greatest explorers, eventually making Settlements in Iceland, the New World, and Russia. They also explored the Mediterranean and raided Visigoth camps in Iberia.

I'd say Militaristic, Commercial. The viking travels that are most (in)famous is when they raided and looted, but those travels were in reality quite few compared to all the travels for trading. And even though they traveled to many different places they didn't really settle that much, they pretty much traded and went back home

	04-06-2002 16:06									#17
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider Those are very good Lord Az, I think they are actually better than mine even. The one thing I would tweak is give Incas industrious rather than religious simply because so many other civs already have the religious trait. Plus, the Inca built Macchu Pichu, a strong network of roads, etc. So I think Industrious would fit them very well.

Well now that I think of it, I'd agree about the Incas being Industrious. Before, I was considering them as Commercial, Industrious, but they did seem more scientific than commercial.

	04-06-2002 16:14									#18
	Got spare money?

There are new traits in PtW, so this is a bit unprecise.

	04-06-2002 16:25									#19
	Re: Civ Traits for PTW Civs Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Hurrying Heinz Here are the civ traits which I think will be associated with each of the new civs on PTW. Vikings - Militaristic, Expansionist They also explored the Mediterranean and raided Visigoth camps in Iberia.

When the Vikings raided Iberia the Visigoths had long been removed from power.

quote: The only business that the Spanish did was war.

Although it's sentences like this what makes this forum so entertaining, I will always wonder where you guys get these ideas from.

	04-06-2002 17:32									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Solver There are new traits in PtW, so this is a bit unprecise.

I didn't see any info on that. I think there's a chance this is the case, but we haven't seen any evidence have we?

	04-06-2002 22:18									#21
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Spanish: Religious, Expansionist

(Militaristic? Just because their guns and armor were extremely capable of killing Native Americans, hardly means they had a large or strong military. Militaristic is primarily for generating Great Leaders. How many great leaders were spawned by the colonization slaughter?)

Mongols: Militaristic, Expansionist

Gauls (btw, Gaul is a better choice than Celt. Including "Celts" would be like including a "European" or "Native American" Civ. 'Celt' is too vague.): Industrious, Religious

Arabs: Religious, Commercial (Oil: A cup of Arabian culture)

Ottomans: Militaristic, ??? (don't want to use religious a third time)

	04-06-2002 23:33									#22
	Got spare money?

Where did you hear this info Solver? It must have somehow slipped under my radar.

	05-06-2002 01:14									#23
	Re: Civ Traits for PTW Civs Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Hurrying Heinz Note: To all threadjackers. This is a free zone

Threadjacking and spamming are in fact two different things...

	05-06-2002 02:14									#24
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

As an outside possibility (boldly jumping into the fray): Each Civ could have three traits instead of two. That would bring the number of unique combinations from 15 to 20, without adding new traits (although that would be nice).

	05-06-2002 02:49									#25
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Amadan As an outside possibility (boldly jumping into the fray): Each Civ could have three traits instead of two. That would bring the number of unique combinations from 15 to 20, without adding new traits (although that would be nice).

How would you balance such a civ with the old ones? Besides, no one would want to play a commercial, industrious and religious civ...

	05-06-2002 03:13									#26
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Is that sarcasm?

	05-06-2002 03:30									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Mikhail Ottomans: Militaristic, ??? (don't want to use religious a third time)

Ottomans: Militaristic, Militaristic

	05-06-2002 03:56									#28
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New traits eh? We're onto you now Solver! Do you know any other unpublished knowledge of PTW?

	05-06-2002 04:06									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Mikhail Spanish: Religious, Expansionist (Militaristic? Just because their guns and armor were extremely capable of killing Native Americans, hardly means they had a large or strong military. Militaristic is primarily for generating Great Leaders. How many great leaders were spawned by the colonization slaughter?)

Does the name Hernando Cortéz ring a bell? How about Francisco Pizarro? I'd say they do qualify as great leaders. BTW, Militaristic has nothing to do with the chances of a great leader appearing. It only means quick promotions and cheaper military buildings.

quote: Ottomans: Militaristic, ??? (don't want to use religious a third time)

I wouldn't say that the Ottomons could be considered 'religious' at all. They do go down in history as devout muslims, but not devout enough to earn the Religious trait.

	05-06-2002 04:14									#30
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo How would you balance such a civ with the old ones? Besides, no one would want to play a commercial, industrious and religious civ...

Easy. Just add a third trait into each of the existing civs.

For example, the Romans could be Industrious as well as Militaristic/Commercial (think of the roads, bridges and aqueducts they were able to build ahead of their time). Germans could also be Industrious on top of their existing two traits (think of how quickly West Germany was able to reconstruct following the end of WWII).