05-06-2002 05:55									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Me

	05-06-2002 06:00									#32
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Me

I thought that might be the case

	05-06-2002 06:05									#33
	Tired of ads?

Your point?

	05-06-2002 06:06									#34
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Your point?

	05-06-2002 06:10									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Well? Spit it out man!

	05-06-2002 06:44									#36
	Suffering from ads?

actually the best thing about icq phone is when there is tech , you back out the hosts states its up (sound familliar ) you come a running and boom....your in...like someother things in life

	05-06-2002 07:05									#37
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'm sorry, but if you let me start with alphabet and pottery I will have explorers by 3200BC and I will win the game. Simple as that.

	05-06-2002 07:09									#38
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by EyesOfNight I'm sorry, but if you let me start with alphabet and pottery I will have explorers by 3200BC and I will win the game. Simple as that.

Look, could you just go away? The adults are talking here and you have more than one sand pit threads to spill your bile in

	05-06-2002 07:57									#39
	Support Apolyton

i agree with the restart...... giving techs to anyone who knows how to play is like handing them HG or whatever other wonder/location/techs they want....

why bother playing... i could see playing one with one tech provided the host had shite land and couldn't find any huts....but as slowwwhand pointed out earlier the game does try its best to even up....though that doesn't always come through in the way "humans" deem Even!!

	05-06-2002 08:01									#40
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by War4ever why bother playing... i could see playing one with one tech provided the host had shite land and couldn't find any huts....

That's the point isn't it? The game only gives techs if you get a get a bad starting position from what I have seen.

	05-06-2002 08:34									#41
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse That's the point isn't it? The game only gives techs if you get a get a bad starting position from what I have seen.

Excuse me... the AI has NO CLUE what is or isn't a good starting position...

And War and Eye's are right... an advantage like that in the hands of a good player... game over...

	05-06-2002 08:41									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Its not perfect and I'm not defending starting techs - I prefer restarts if time permits. But I have noticed that you only seem to get starting techs if your start point includes no land that generates trade. The more barren trade wise your land is, the more techs you get. I've had up to 4 - we've never played with the host having more than 1 tech.

	05-06-2002 08:47									#43
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by rah I do too, but some techs won't trip a demo change. But since I usually host......I let others check me RAH

In our game saturday nite, you had ceremonial burial and bronze working and I still showed up as 1st in literacy.

Not that I was checking

	05-06-2002 09:03									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

edited because i didnt want to stoop to the level of Eyes but someone already quoted me

Last edited by Deity Dude on 05-06-2002 at 09:12

	05-06-2002 09:09									#45
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Deity Dude Sean you seem cranky do you need a juice box.

Okay, who gave Sean the red cordial?

	05-06-2002 14:24									#46
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Only alpha writing or literacy change the demos.

	05-06-2002 14:47									#47
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

the advantage of free techs is huge. they don´t even attach the beaker count which means even with 5 free techs the host will only need 10 beakers for the next (=first researched) science. this advantage can be crucial, even later in the game when the other players made up with the host in science. the host will always need less beakers for the next tech. just for this reason restart is due, at least if the host has two or more free techs.

if you are fed up with restarting over and over again you can also load the game into the editor and wipe out the host tech. this is done in two minutes.

	05-06-2002 15:15									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I agree with Slowwbaby.

I can't stand restarting and wasting time. It's the thin end of the wedge cos folks then start going on about starting locations, blah blah and you very quickly lose sight of the game.

I play from any start (NOT duels) and enjoy whatever the challenges or advantages are that I have. Most Aussies have gone down this path now because we are realistic fun loving beautiful people who can't stand whinging, whining, self-obsessed perfectionists who take it all too seriously and can't handle REAL challenges.

Too many claim greatness in games that they continue in because the conditions suit them yet they duck out of conditions that don't suit them; SO they are really not being seriously challenged - except in the brag sessions in these forums.


Thanks MNing, I feel much better now...

	05-06-2002 18:20									#49
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Its not perfect and I'm not defending starting techs - I prefer restarts if time permits. But I have noticed that you only seem to get starting techs if your start point includes no land that generates trade. The more barren trade wise your land is, the more techs you get. I've had up to 4 - we've never played with the host having more than 1 tech.

I don't know, I've hosted a LOT of games and there are times I've started on a river with trade specials and huts in sight and then look to see that I have 4 techs. (when checking the save later, I noticed that it must have been because another civ was close by)

And DD, when I don't host, I'll save every start when I'm playing with people I'm not familiar with, to check later to see if they were honest. You never know about SOME people.

Rich

	05-06-2002 18:32									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by rah I don't know, I've hosted a LOT of games and there are times I've started on a river with trade specials and huts in sight and then look to see that I have 4 techs.

Quite. There seems little correlation between actual quality of starts and techs. Besides, it is only the host that gets such consideration. Lets presume both players have equally bad starts and the AI correctly sees this. Only the host gets the leveller.

With just 1 free tech the beaker costs to a landmark tech like gunpowder are staggeringly different across players.

	05-06-2002 18:54									#51
	Inflate your Upload Space

Yes, it's the gift that just keeps on giving.

Rich

	05-06-2002 19:11									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by oedo if you are fed up with restarting over and over again you can also load the game into the editor and wipe out the host tech. this is done in two minutes.

Yeah... but the person that does the editing gets to see the full map... (and anybody that takes the opportunity during the wait and loads the game themselves does too)

	05-06-2002 19:34									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yeah. Unless I'm playing with a group that I really trust, I can't help but get a little suspicious when you reload a game early on. Or when someone drops and rejoins in the first 10 turns.
Yes, a little paranoid, but after reading a lot of threads here, justified.

RAH

	05-06-2002 20:22									#54
	Got spare money?

I guess if you're playing with DD or AH you don't really need to restart, it's not as if they're good enough to take advantage of the extra techs.

	06-06-2002 02:45									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

"I have given you all the plants and herbs in the world to use - God"

I wasn't aware anyone actually believed what the bible says?

	06-06-2002 03:22									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

That's your misfortune.

	06-06-2002 05:20									#58
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by EyesOfNight I guess if you're playing with DD or AH you don't really need to restart, it's not as if they're good enough to take advantage of the extra techs.

*oh please God - make all my duel partners believe that*

	06-06-2002 11:02									#59
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ming Yeah... but the person that does the editing gets to see the full map... (and anybody that takes the opportunity during the wait and loads the game themselves does too)

no you dont...


Besides you only get free tech nearly every game when you use retarded settings like AH. IE maps with no grassland squares. The host always gets a river to start and the other player is screwed.. And if the other players start is as good as the host the host gets 3 or 4 techs.

	06-06-2002 11:38									#60
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by markusf Besides you only get free tech nearly every game when you use retarded settings like AH. IE maps with no grassland squares. The host always gets a river to start and the other player is screwed.. And if the other players start is as good as the host the host gets 3 or 4 techs.

You're the world's greatest player - on settings of your own choosing

Markusf did the kind of map he prefers and it looked like the green fields of freaking Ireland

He ends up smack in the middle with rivers up the diddlee-o and I end up on a finger land with nothing

Physician heal thyself