04-06-2002 20:46									#1
	Free Techs for the Host Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

While playing a game the other nite in which I was hosting, I got three free techs to start. Like usual, I told my opponent that I had some free techs, so he should back out of the game so we could do a restart. After waiting a minute... the other player finished his turn and it advanced to me. I then nicely reminded him that I had a few free techs and that we should restart. He then responded that he had never done that before. That in the games he had played in... the host was allowed that extra advantage.... HUH!!!!!!!! Now I can understand why some peole always want to host

So how do you guys handle free techs in your groups of friends. Obviously, since the group I play with usually uses Rah rules, we reset until the start is clean of free techs...

	04-06-2002 21:10									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

You have to reset; I'm sure everyone here does. It's not just the free techs, but the lower beaker costs compared with your opponent for future ones. It's a staggering advantage.

I have been lucky (on account of the time saved) lately, clean most of the time. The record number of restarts was in a 4 way where I hosted. I lost count, but suffice it to say it was so many that despite knowing the above 2 of the players said keep the techs! Fortunately the next start was clean.

	04-06-2002 21:12									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Once again bucking conventional theory, I don't believe in "Host Advantage".
IMO, it all evens out. I've had a Host restart when they had techs, but I was on a river with ivory, gold, and a whale all in my starting city squares.

	04-06-2002 21:14									#4
	Put an end to popups!

Keep restarting. I agree. The other night we went through almost 10 restarts (I lost track)

I think sometimes one of the players sees that dream start, rivers, a couple of huts, a four special capital with trade specials, and figures he doesn't care if the host has a tech. Knowing on the next clean start he'll have all plains, no specials, no river, no huts.

RAH

Again, I didn't type fast enough, thanks for the example Slow. But even a start like that, doesn't equal 4 or 5 techs at the start. I've gotten into monarchy at 3850 that way before.

	04-06-2002 21:20									#5
	Tired of ads?

It may depend on the number and type techs and what I used as an example was a "best case" scenario.
I sure hated restarting. I felt it entirely possible that I could make up ground.

	04-06-2002 21:25									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

But what about the 3rd or 4th player that didn't have the great starting position. They would be even more hard pressed to keep up. HENCE RESTART. The last thing we need when starting MP games is having judgement calls. A rigid rule is needed. While a lot of people don't agree with all of the RAH rules, they're willing to play them so there are no rules arguements and a pickup game can start quickly.
If nothing else, any rules set accomplishes that.



RAH

	04-06-2002 21:28									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

True.

	04-06-2002 21:32									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by rah and a pickup game can start quickly. If nothing else, any rules set accomplishes that.

The other nite, I think we spent almost an hour discussing the rules/settings... and then when the game started, we ended up wasting time discussing stuff as it came up... like free techs for the host. Overall, I think we did more "discussing" then we did playing...

	04-06-2002 22:49									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

..all things being equal,even 1 free tech can be decisive.Especially in a 2x production game.Restart is the only option.Usually doesn't take too long depending on the # of players.Bumping up the map size a few notches can be helpful.

	04-06-2002 23:35									#10
	Tired of ads?

I also agree with restart, though I had one of those river/3-special moments (with gold) in a duel the other day... I wouldn't have minded not restarting, but as Ming rightly says, you do just need to have that rule in place to stop arguements and whining.

	04-06-2002 23:45									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

That wouldn't be our Happiness vs Sea game . BRW you caused me to be 1/2 hour late to work this morning - I can't afford these session that end at 4am

	04-06-2002 23:47									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Graag I also agree with restart, though I had one of those river/3-special moments (with gold) in a duel the other day... I wouldn't have minded not restarting, but as Ming rightly says, you do just need to have that rule in place to stop arguements and whining.

Yes it does stop the arguements...............
But nothing stops the WHINING.

Rich

	04-06-2002 23:58									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

The worst is when you play someone and the first 2 times they say "restart" and then the 3rd time they say - "Oh I don't want to waste anymore time lets just go"

Thats when you wonder if starting with Warrior Code is really an advantage.

	05-06-2002 00:10									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

HAHAHAHAHA, How true.
When they say it after the third time, I definately know I should be restarting.

RAH

	05-06-2002 00:14									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Depends on who I'm playing and starting position.

But in the usual 3/4 way on the zone I dont realy care what techs or extra settlers players have, it only means I have to think about the game for a change

	05-06-2002 00:19									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The extra settler for everyone at deity makes it easier.

I get a kick out of when we have someone new who obviously doesn't play deity much, and announces that he has two settlers and whether he should disband one.

Once we weren't fast enough and had to restart.

RAH

	05-06-2002 00:28									#17
	Tired of ads?

Tell them to disband a settler.

	05-06-2002 02:06									#18
	Remove this text

But I like to encourage new comers to want to play again

Rich

	05-06-2002 02:33									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I often Host and always say if i get free techs expecting a restart but if all others players say to play on I don't argue with them.

I prefer a restart as it feels wrong to have an advantage like that.

	05-06-2002 02:50									#20
	Inflate your Upload Space

That becomes a judgement then, and we really like to avoid all of those. We don't want accusations flying. Or wasting time discussing it.

	05-06-2002 02:55									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Always restart.....I even look at the Dems. to make sure that the host didn't "forget" that he had extra tech..............lol

	05-06-2002 03:00									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I do too, but some techs won't trip a demo change.

But since I usually host......I let others check me


RAH

	05-06-2002 03:15									#23
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

As long as the host declares the techs and asks for restart he can not be accussed of anything underhand. If the others have such great land as to not care about the free techs it is there right to play on but if 1 player wants restart then restart it is.

There are times as host that I hoped for techs when I see I am starting on the great sandy desert.

	05-06-2002 03:19									#24
	Tired of ads?

When the starting position looks bad, I race to the Demo screen to see if I'm second in literacy

	05-06-2002 04:34									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I don't know slow, you really want to give me pottery and alphabet as starting techs?

	05-06-2002 04:37									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I don't know. I've started in crap positions that might as well give that.

	05-06-2002 04:54									#27
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

We play 1x so the free tech isn't necessarily such a big advantage. If its a serious game we always restart though.

	05-06-2002 05:05									#28
	Tired of ads?

I wouldn't mind if you got free techs based on how good or bad your starting postion was... but only if the AI had a "CLUE" of what a good or bad starting position really was, and if EVERYBODY had a shot at them, not just the host.

	05-06-2002 05:25									#29
	Put an end to popups!

Lately we've let the host have the free tech rather than waste half an hour trying to get a tech free map.

	05-06-2002 05:50									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Lately we've let the host have the free tech rather than waste half an hour trying to get a tech free map.

And who usually hosts