06-06-2002 01:02									#1
	Improved Leader Lists + Barbarian Lists Put an end to popups!

The current city lists and leader lists in civ3 are, frankly, quite messy, since they leave out important cities/leaders and items are sometimes misspelled.

Is there any possibility that Firaxis is going to improve these lists, esp. the city lists which haven't changed since Civ2?

Edit:
For readability purposes, the updated list is now in this first post.

CITY LISTS:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=52331

HEROES LISTS:

Roman Heroes List:
1. Claudius
2. Trajan
3. Attilius Regulus
4. Octavian
5. Scipio Africanus
6. Diocletian
7. Arbogast
8. Mark Aurelius
------------------

Babylonian Heroes List:
1. Ensha Gkushanna
2. Eannatum
3. Sargon
4. Naram-Sin
5. Chedorlaomer
6. Nabuchodonosor
7. Gudea
8. Zaggisi
-------------------

Iroquois Heroes List:
1. Tyendinaga
2. Canaqueese
3. Canassatego
4. Akiatonharokwen
5. Kiontwogky
6. Dekanawidah
7. Tiyanoga
8. Honyere Tehawenkarogwen
9. Sagoyewatha
10. Skenandoah
--------------------

Japanese Heroes List:
1. Motonari
2. Nobunaga
3. Katsuie
4. Takeda
5. Tadatsugu
6. Uesugi
7. Yomashita
8. Hirohito
--------------------

French Heroes List:
1. Philip Augustus
2. Godefroi de Bouillon
3. Raymond St. Gilles
4. Marshal Turenne
5. La Faillette
6. Napoleon
7. De Gaulle
--------------------

Egyptian Heroes List:
1. Na'rmer
2. Weni
3. Mentuhotep II
4. Senusret
5. Kamose
6. Tuthmose
7. Ramses
--------------------

Chinese Heroes List:
1. Sun Tzu
2. Liu Bang
3. Zhuge Liang
4. Cao Cao
5. Li Shimin
6. Yue Fei
7. Zhu Yuanzhang
8. Qianlong
---------------------

German Heroes List:
1. Hermann the Cherusker
2. Friedrich I 'Barbarossa'
3. Friedrich II the Great
4. Bluecher
5. Moltke
6. Manstein
7. Rommel
---------------------

Persian Heroes List
1. Cyrus the Great
2. Cambyses II
3. Darius the Great
4. Surenas
5. Mithridates
6. Chosroes II
7. Shakh Ismail
8. Megabazus
9. Abbas
---------------------

Zulu Heroes List:
1. Nehanda
2. Dingane
3. Mpande
4. Ntshingwayo
5. Nongalaza
6. Dabulamanzi
7. Prince Mbilini
---------------------

Indian Heroes List:
1. Chandragupta Maurya
2. Bindusara
3. Ashoka
4. Shivaji
5. Smadragupta
6. Chandragupta II
7. Babur
8. Aqbar
9. Porus
10. Tilak
11. Indira Ghandi
----------------------

American Hero List:
1. Washington
2. Sherman
3. Lee
4. Grant
5. Fremont
6. Pershing
7. Patton
8. MacArthur
----------------------

Greek Heroes List:
1. Achilleas
2. Leonidas
3. Pericles
4. Belisarius
5. Basil Bulgaroctonos
6. Kolokotronis
7. Paulos Melas
8. Themistokles
----------------------

Aztec Heroes List:
1. Cuauhtemoc
2. Cuitlahuac
3. Axayacatl
4. Itzcoatl
5. Ahuitzotl
6. Huitzilihuitli
7. Benito Juarez
8. General Zapata
------------------------

Russian Heroes List:
1. Svyatoslav
2. Nevskii
3. Donskoi
4. Peter the Great
5. Suvorov
6. Kutuzov
7. Denis Davydov
8. Zhukov
------------------------

English Heroes List:
1. Alfred the Great
2. Harold Godwineson
3. Richard the Lionheart
4. Edward I "Longshanks"
5. Henry V
6. Duke of Marlborough
7. James Wolfe
8. Wellington
------------------------

Mongol Heroes List:
1. Subedey
2. Jebe
3. Hulagu Khan
4. Kublai Khan
5. Batu Khan
6. Mamay
7. Amursana
8. Sukhe Baatar
------------------------
------------------------

BARBARIAN ENCAMPMENTS:

American Barbarian List:
1. Cherokee
2. Anasazi
3. Toltec
4. Olmec
5. Zapotec
6. Chehalis
7. Chinook
8. Apache
9. Illinois
10. Inuit
11. Navajo
12. Carib
13. Sioux
14. Mohican
15. Delaware
------------------------

European Barbarian List:
1. Saxon
2. Angle
3. Magyar
4. Patzinak
5. Pict
6. Avar
7. Alemanni
8. Burgundian
9. Gepid
10. Hun
11. Jute
12. Marcomanni
13. Cuman
14. Tatar
15. Samoyed
------------------------

Mediterranean Barbarian List:
1. Dacian
2. Illyrian
3. Thracian
4. Phrygian
5. Messapian
6. Ligurian
7. Samnit
8. Cimmerian
9. Numidian
10. Sarmatian
11. Scythian
12. Seljuk
13. Vandal
14. Goth
15. Bulgar
------------------------

Middle Eastern & African Barbarian List:
1. Nubian
2. Chircassian
3. Hurrian
4. Kassite
5. Bantu
6. Khoisan
7. Uzbek
8. Turkmen
9. Ghuzz
10. Sakae
11. Massaget
12. Elamite
13. Haldei
14. Kushit
15. Hyksos
------------------------

Far Eastern Barbarian List:
1. Yi
2. Nan-Yueh
3. Tong-Hu
4. Ainu
5. Polynesian
6. Hsien-Peh
7. Hsiung Nu
8. Kushan
9. Yue-Chi
10. Kyrgyz
11. Uygur
12. Tokhar
13. Tibetan
14. Viet
15. Khmer

Generic:
Barbarian

Last edited by ranskaldan on 10-06-2002 at 02:49

	06-06-2002 01:30									#2
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Someone (I forgot the name) made an extensive city list for all Civs, which is in Marla's map. If you don't want to download the map, I also applied this list in my mod (see sig).

Firaxis : maybe you should include this city list in the next patch, so that it will be considered a default rule by MP players ? (we know most people will play the standard rules)

	06-06-2002 14:12									#3
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Another needed fix: barbarians list.
Harappan appears twice. Saxon appears in American Culture Group etc. Khazak/Khazar?Patzinal/Patzinac mis-spellings. Celt/Gaul Hun/Hsung-Nu are same tribes.

Edit: list removed

Last edited by Imp. Montezuma on 09-06-2002 at 16:24

	06-06-2002 16:56									#4
	Remove this text

hmmm...2 maybe 3 will be turned into civs, i wonder whether firaxis will remember to remove them from the barbarians list...

	06-06-2002 20:52									#5
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There was a thread some way back regarding Hero names:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...25&pagenumber=7.

Last edited by ranskaldan on 06-06-2002 at 21:49

	06-06-2002 21:14									#6
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edit:

heroes list is now in first post.

Last edited by ranskaldan on 09-06-2002 at 21:36

	07-06-2002 02:42									#7
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modern japanese GL: Hirohito

	07-06-2002 05:14									#8
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thanks, civman2000.
the concern that i have is that hirohito is connotative of ww2 and therefore might not be very appropriate.

Also, can anyone provide good, detailed heroes lists for the new civs in ptw, like for the mongols, spaniards, arabs, etc?

	07-06-2002 06:16									#9
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Mongol GL 1st effort:
Subedey - warlord of Ginghis
Jebe - warlord of Ginghis
Hulagu Khan - ruler of Middle east
Hubilay (kublai) Khan - Conqueror of China
Batu Khan - Golden Orda, conqueror of West
Mamay - warlord of Golden Orda
Amursana - warlord of Jungars, ancestors of Mongol Power in native Mongolia, national Hero
Sukhe Baatar - warlord and ruler of Mongolia in early XX

	07-06-2002 07:24									#10
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Thank you.

Anyone else has ideas for corrections and additions?

(Also, we should probably start thinking about the city lists. I've made a Chinese City List that includes a lot more ancient cities, and I think this should also be done with the Indians, Germans, Russians, and so on.)

	07-06-2002 08:06									#11
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Napoleon can be in but Hirohito can't?? Nothing against Napoleon, but the same sort of thing could be said against him being a GL too

	07-06-2002 08:15									#12
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Alright, point taken.

	07-06-2002 09:09									#13
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Change American leaders name to
Washington
Sherman
Lee
David Crockette
John Fremont
Pershing
Patton
MacArthur

	07-06-2002 09:16									#14
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Right.

1. Washington
2. Grant
3. Lee
4. Pershing
5. Sherman
6. Jackson
7. MacArthur
8. Patton

becomes

1. Washington
2. Sherman
3. Lee
4. David Crockette
5. John Fremont
6. Pershing
7. Patton
8. MacArthur

	07-06-2002 09:37									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yeah, I got rid of Grant because we wanst a great leader: all he did was bash his troops in frontal charges against Lees Army of Northern Virginia
I put David Crockette because he was an explorer and also died in the Alamo.
John Fremont, another explorer, founded the Bear Flag Republic and also fought in the Mexican - American war

	07-06-2002 17:49									#16
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Crockette? A GL???? ANd Lee? A great leader, but not a great leader for the US....

I would suggest putting the leaders in historical order, that's how they are in the game (for the most part, I don't think the greek ones are but most are) and how they should be.

	07-06-2002 18:57									#17
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Hey! Wait! If you remove Grant, please also remove Fremont, who was a bumbling moron. One need not go beyond reading his political and military life, especially his downright treasonous actions during the American Civil War. The guy was a moron, and certainly not by any standards a great leader.

	08-06-2002 02:52									#18
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Alright.... :sensing an American heroes debate coming up:

does anyone have ideas for the other civs, i.e. Spanish, Arabs, Turks, Carthaginians, etc.?

	08-06-2002 05:24									#19
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Edit: list obsolete

Last edited by Imp. Montezuma on 09-06-2002 at 16:26

	08-06-2002 07:13									#20
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Thanks Imp

edit: I've started another thread for City names. Can a mod change the name of this thread to just "Heroes Names"?

Last edited by ranskaldan on 08-06-2002 at 07:21

	08-06-2002 07:36									#21
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Ahhhh, good ol' Suvarov, the scourge of Islam! Him and Kutusov sure did a number on the Ottomans during the late 18th and early 19th centuries.

	09-06-2002 07:04									#22
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edit:

list is now in first thread.

Last edited by ranskaldan on 09-06-2002 at 21:37

	09-06-2002 07:31									#23
	Remove this text

Edit:

updated list is now in the first post.

Last edited by ranskaldan on 09-06-2002 at 21:31

	09-06-2002 10:12									#24
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Crockett is usually spelled this way.

D Crockett Link

	09-06-2002 10:33									#25
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corrected.

thank you.

	09-06-2002 11:05									#26
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You are welcome.

Congratulations on a project that is well done; also, very comprehensive in scope. I don't envy all the work you have put into it. I do enjoy the benefits of your labors, though.

Some of those names encourage me to read more about them. While I am very well read and have a nice library of my own books, over 200 when I stopped counting, I haven't read everything
The names will give me something to look up in my spare time.

	09-06-2002 11:12									#27
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Actually...... most of the list was directly copied from this thread: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...5&pagenumber=7. I think I'd have to credit much of the work to Kickasso, and the various participants who debated themselves to death over the English Heroes List.

Indeed I'm being encouraged to do the exact same thing: find out more about some of those names in the list.

But thanks for the compliment anyway.

Last edited by ranskaldan on 09-06-2002 at 11:18

	09-06-2002 16:16									#28
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Well, ranskaladan. It's better. I'm myself very bad in anglicized spelling
But please
Russians
~ Denis Davydov (because in Russia 'Davydov' as 'Smith' in Anglo-Saxon world)
- Etruscan (I have big respect for they as Predecessors of Romans, as Inventors of Latin alphabet: West-Greec->Etruscan->Latin)
Thanks

	09-06-2002 16:23									#29
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Ranskaladan, include all lists in Your first post, please.
I will remove my early lists for redability purpose.
Thanks

	09-06-2002 19:03									#30
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And you may want to change the Russian leader Kutuzov to Kutusov (as it's normally spelled in English).