06-06-2002 01:16									#1
	" Upsetting " World Cup Remove this text

I know its just the first games and most of the favorites can still advance but

Senegal 1 France 0
USA 3 Portugal 2
Korea 2 Poland 0
Japan 1 Belgium 1

I wonder if this is one of the most suprising first sets of games ??

Also I was wondering if some of the people who had a consistent rant over the fact that there were too many weak non-European teams will fess up and admit that the rest of the world is catching up and perhaps European representation is just about right ( 15 teams is it not ?). The current record of European qualifiers stands at 5 wins and 6 losses with 5 draws so they are hardlyy showing any dominant strength.

With the exception of the embarrassment of the Saudis 8-0 loss, I believe that the largest margin of victory is 2 goals so we are seeing some good close games.

I don't doubt that Europe remains a very strong region but these results suggest that anyone complaining that Europe deserves even more representation is misguided at best.

	06-06-2002 01:24									#2
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If I were Sepp Blatter (the unspeakable horror! ), I would try to cut the number of European teams down to 10 or so. There is already a European Championship, and the way it's now in the final rounds is just another European Championship plus Argentina and Brazil.

	06-06-2002 01:25									#3
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Maybe in order for Euro to compete they should have an EC team instead.

J/k

	06-06-2002 01:25									#4
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Yeah, agreed entirely. I think European representation is spot on - the African teams have proved themselves more than worthy, and the Asian hosts have both done themselves proud.

I honestly think the Saudis just had a bit (lot) of an off-day, I don't think they're quite as bad as they looked against Germany (they won their qualifying section, ahead of teams like Iran).

And the US weren't bad either, I suppose.

Though just to nitpick, it was Japan 2-2 Belgium, and not 1-1 - personally I wouldn't call that an upset, having seen Japan previously, but still.

	06-06-2002 01:26									#5
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quote: Japan 1 Belgium 1

Japan 2 Belgium 2

	06-06-2002 01:41									#6
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Didn't Ireland just tie Germany, 1-1? That would be an upset, no?

-Arrian

	06-06-2002 01:45									#7
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Not really, both teams played very good football, a draw was the fairest result

Besides Germany have gone crap lately

	06-06-2002 02:33									#8
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The only undefeated conference in this year's World Cup so far is CONCACAF, which is 3-0 (Mexico, Costa Rica, US). Shouldn't we get an extra spot from the Europeans?

	06-06-2002 02:37									#9
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i dont follow soccer at all but AMERICA WON.

	06-06-2002 02:41									#10
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Hopefully, they'll win a little bit more, and people will start to take an interest in soccer. It's a great sport... much more so than some others which dominate over here.

-Arrian

	06-06-2002 03:29									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Jay Bee If I were Sepp Blatter (the unspeakable horror! ), I would try to cut the number of European teams down to 10 or so. There is already a European Championship, and the way it's now in the final rounds is just another European Championship plus Argentina and Brazil.

In this WC there are 15 euro teams. Are you saying that you would remove 5 of these teams? And replace them with what? Honduras? Canada? Tibet? That would lower the quality very much.
Which euro teams should it be? Holland is not even at this WC, and i see Holland as the best of the teams in the world, that did not qualify.

5 of 10 countries in the COMMEBOL (South American) group qualified for the WC. Thats 50%.
15 of 51 countries in the UEFA group qualified for the WC.
Only < 30%. It is unfair to lower this even more.

I think that 15 teams from europe is fine.

	06-06-2002 03:40									#12
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There should be eight more spots available, and at least seven should go to European sides.

	06-06-2002 03:42									#13
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quote: There should be eight more spots available, and at least seven should go to European sides.

BWAHAHAH!

If there were 8 more spots, no more than FOUR should go to the Euros. They don't deserve it, as shown this year.

	06-06-2002 03:46									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: There should be eight more spots available, and at least seven should go to European sides. BWAHAHAH! If there were 8 more spots, no more than FOUR should go to the Euros. They don't deserve it, as shown this year.

Says an Asian living in the Americas.

	06-06-2002 03:48									#15
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Who knows that European teams aren't at the higher quality they used to be. Europe is fading as other continents rise.

	06-06-2002 03:59									#16
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Nu-uh. We are still the strongest footballing continent by a mile. So France, England, and Portugal are going out, maybe. What about Spain, Italy, Germany, and Turkey?

	06-06-2002 04:06									#17
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go germans go.....hehe

	06-06-2002 04:37									#18
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Considering that Japan and Korea are the host nations, and Portugal are very inconsistant, the only big surprise result is Senegal-France.
The USA winning was surprising, but not as much. And as JohnIII said, we'll still have more countries in the knock-out stage than any other continent

	06-06-2002 04:56									#19
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quote: Nu-uh. We are still the strongest footballing continent by a mile.

Didn't say that. Said you are falling in power respective to the other nations in the world. I mean, you can't say you are gaining in power respectively!

	06-06-2002 05:01									#20
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It's true that more than 50% of South American teams qualified for the World Cup. That's because they're good. Are Slovenia, objectively, good enough to be there? Or Croatia? Talk about makeweights. England even are rather borderline, and I'm not convinced that Portugal aren't overrated after that performance they put on last night.

Even Ecuador played exciting football when they had the leather at their feet. What did we get from Sweden? Long ball, long ball. Let's face it, folks; this is not 1950, and Hidegkuti is long dead.

	06-06-2002 06:06									#21
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THIS IS THE WORLD CUP OF THE UNDERDOGS!

Don't you just love the underdogs, and it would be one of the few sports where USA are considered underdogs.

Even if these underdog teams eventually lose, they'll at least leave with their heads held high, with the exception of Saudi Arabia perhaps.

	06-06-2002 07:38									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Hopefully, they'll win a little bit more, and people will start to take an interest in soccer. It's a great sport... much more so than some others which dominate over here.

Agreed. Got very little sleep last night as I woke up early to watch the game. Man was it good for the American team after the embarassment of France '98. I hope that if the US can win one more game, maybe, just maybe there will be some buzz when the US enters the second round. Hopefully it will allow the slowly mounting American soccer experience to continue.

	06-06-2002 08:26									#23
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Korea 2 Poland 0

This is an upset?!

I have to admit, I was shocked seeing how many people were predicting Portugal for that group in the World Cup thread. Not having followed soccer this year, there IS one thing I do know: that the home team traditionally does way better than it should in the Cup. I mean, look at how often the home team has won. Not to mention times that the home team did better than expected, like Chile getting to the finals when the Cup was held there, or the USA getting past the qualifying rounds to be beaten by Brazil when it was held here in '94.

So looking at the Portugal/USA/South Korea/Poland matchup, I immediately gave at least 50% chance that South Korea would win the division. I'd say that they still have my vote: I think that the US team is in trouble when they play South Korea next. But I wouldn't be surprised if they win their division and advance well. I wouldn't be surprised at Japan doing well, too.

	06-06-2002 10:09									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat And as JohnIII said, we'll still have more countries in the knock-out stage than any other continent

That's because Europe grabs 15 slots out of 32. You're just reiterating an unfairness

	06-06-2002 10:14									#25
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The 1-1 against Ireland was more than embarassing.

And before you ask: both of them.

	06-06-2002 11:18									#26
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You Europeans are just too scared to admit that us Americans and Asians arekicking your arses at your own game!

	06-06-2002 13:47									#27
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quote: There should be eight more spots available, and at least seven should go to European sides.

Eight groups of five with top two qualifying would be good.

In the qualifying stages they could also widen the inter-confederation play. Have all "playoff teams" play a team from another confederation - same way Ireland played Iran and Uruguay played Australia.

	06-06-2002 14:19									#28
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true, underdogs have been winning a lot but who says that it could not as well has been European underdogs doing that? Even a poor team like holland can do that.

I have to admit (as I'm one of those complaining) that Africa has done well (but I've never questioned their presence like some other though) and also Costa rica, Mexico and also the US. Even if I don't think any of them will get futher than the second round.

The asian teams are still not good enough though. Winning at home in a competition like this is common. All host countries have done good in history. Japan and Korea are not any different. Asia can have two places but considering the quality of the two teams that qualified the normal way i can't see why they should get any more, they have been appaling.

	06-06-2002 14:24									#29
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i might add that although i don't think other parts of the world needs more places I'm happy about all those "upsets" (or most of them). Nothing wrong with that. A predictable tournament is a boring tournament.

	06-06-2002 19:11									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui The only undefeated conference in this year's World Cup so far is CONCACAF, which is 3-0 (Mexico, Costa Rica, US). Shouldn't we get an extra spot from the Europeans?

no,
your conference should delegate 1 team at most. three is too much. also, take one team from asia and hand it over to africa