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nbarclay
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Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:20
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This post describes my strategy and game events thus far. Don't read it unless you want to know!
As host of this game, I had an extra starting consideration that other players don't: determining whether or not the map was worth playing as a tournament. I'd already discarded one game because there was no two-food land terrain within sight of the starting position, a couple others because there were at least two other civs on the starting land mass and that went against the island spirit of the game, and one because the starting positions were too cramped together (plus an important strategic resource was only available on "enemy" lands, at least in the early game).
I built Thebes just southwest of the starting position (so I could start taking advantage of the cattle immediately), and then started preparing to do my favorite thing in the whole world to do with such a city: create a settler pump. Since I couldn't count on getting Pottey from someone else, I set research to max short of losing money to get it myself. Once my initial warrior was under way to see if the map was a "keeper," I started on a barracks as a prebuild. When I discovered Pottery, I switched over to a grainary and started cranking out settlers. Eventually, I settled everything worth settling south of the chokepoint.
The problem was, I had essentially no military (largely because Thebes was too busy working on the Great Lighthouse), and two Roman units trapped on my lands decided they wanted to start a war. I lost one newly founded city (which wasn't worth much in any case). But Rome had trapped one of my warriors behind their lines, and I was able to retaliate by capturing a passing settler unit. (Fortunately, my warrior outfought theirs.)
Shortly after, I barely fought off an attack on Elephantine, my silk city. But once my numerous barracks started churning out archers and Thebes finished its Lighthouse and joined the fun, I quickly gained the upper hand. I bypassed a small town and took Rome itself, but then made peace when a Roman counterattack threatened to prove costly. (Besides, I wanted Bronze Working and the Wheel, both of which I'd bypassed beelining for mapmaking and then working toward Republic, and Rome was quite pleased to give them to me given the alternative.)
A long period of peace and prosperity followed, during which time I explored most of the world. But eventually, I reached a point where the Egyptian Republic (founded in 90 BC) was ready to fight another war. I used galleys to ferry numerous war chariots to the city of Rome. In 280 AD, the war and Egypt's Golden Age were on. In the end, peace negotiations left Rome with only a single city.
With a golden age still underway and war chariots still relatively high-tech (I was the only one in the medieval era), I decided to make Japan my next target. I posted the game for others to play about the time I made my first landings on Japanese soil. At the time, the euphoria of a golden age was making me feel invincible.
Japan fell fairly quickly, albeit with more losses on my side than I would have liked. (I did leave them with one distant island city.) But by then, my golden age was over and research had slowed down a lot. China was much bigger and better armed than Japan had been, and trying to take on the Chinese with ancient units didn't seem like such a great idea. (By the way, Rome committed suicide during the Japanese war by attacking and destroying one of the cities it had surrendered as a price of peace. After the attack, some war chariots decided they wanted a vacation in Neapolis before proceding to the front lines of the real war.  )
I got Chivalry, but the price of upgrading war chariots to knights is absolutely horrendous. And I had twenty of the things! All of a sudden, Leonardo's Workshop started looking really, REALLY good!
A bit later, when I saw that China had completed the Hanging Gardens and was working on the Great Wall (instant golden age by itself) and Sun Tsu's (a golden age in conjunction with the Hanging Gardens) I started to worry. China's military was more than a match for mine in numbers, and probably in quality as well given the obsolescence of my war chariots against China's pikemen. I juggled tiles to get Leonardo's Workshop down from twenty turns to eighteen (actually it was still a Sistine prebuild at the time), started building military units, and hoped. I got the Workshop, upgraded nineteen war chariots and a horse unit (one war chariot unit was elite) and attacked, capturing both cities China was trying to produce wonders in and two others as well. Now I own all but one city on the Chinese mainland, my new capital is Beijing thanks to Ramses (I have a Forbidden Palace keeping my original continent productive), and I still have the vast majority of my knight force. (The war went so well I stopped building knights almost right after it started, and my current "in" thing to build in the core cities is universities.) The year is now 850 AD.
So where do I go from here? When I take China's last continental city, I plan to offer peace in exchange for all of their island cities except their capital. (I dwarf their culture, and with my capital in Beijing, chances of culture flipping should be small even without garrisons.) And if China is still alive, that may keep tech prices a tad higher when the big boys try to follow me in research. Plus, I'd just as soon save the time conquering the other island cities.
Then, on to Babylon, which I've just noticed has neither iron nor horses (and has no way of getting them at present, being on their own as they are). Longbowmen could give me an interesting time, but I'm hoping there won't be enough of them to make an effective opposition.
From there, the plan is to get Astronomy, Navigation, and Military Tradition (and its prerequisites) before going after the Aztecs (who have been my closest rivals in score through much of the game, leading for a fair while). They'll almost certainly have gunpowder by then, although I may get lucky and find that they don't have saltpeter, but cavalry can mow down musketmen easily enough in any case. Then I get to see whether domination or conquest comes first. (Probably conquest, given the amount of unclaimed land and surrounding coast in the world.)
Nathan
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nbarclay
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Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:20
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Well, the war with Babylon didn't go as expected at all. Knights who had decimated Chinese pikemen with fairly light losses found themselves killed and wounded in large numbers against bowmen. I ended up making peace on only slightly favorable terms after just taking two cities, and one of those - the one I really wanted for its eventual access to a luxury - culture flipped (and took four wounded knight units with it) right after the peace treaty.
I've got Navigation, and now I'm working on Chemistry on my way to Military Tradition. I'll probably resume the war in another twenty turns when my newly negotiated tech-and-luxuries-for-luxuries deals with the Aztecs and Babylonians expire, unless something throws a monkey wrench into the works. I'm also building Magellan's Voyage so I can keep my naval speed advantage when I discover Magnetism, since I seriously doubt that I'll have conquered the world before then.
By the way, China insisted on keeping two cities, not just its capital, when we negotiated peace. With a little luck, though, maybe I can culture flip the one they wouldn't give me.
Nathan
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nbarclay
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Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:20
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And now, the conclusion:
Babylon decided to attack me before I was ready to restart the war. All they accomplished, though, was to throw away essentially all their longbowmen. (The idiots didn't even think to escort their longbowmen with musketmen. If they did, I would have been in trouble because they had a hill outside my city to attack from.)
Then I got Military Tradition and upgraded the knights I'd been ferrying over to cavalry. Taking Babylon's continent just took a few turns after that, and then three more to get to and capture their island city to the west. The war ended in 1300.
I spent the next fifty years building tons more cavalry and galleons, and started stomping the Aztecs in 1350. Their home continent was mine in 1380, and from there, it was a race to see whether or not I could mop up the remnants before I got a domination victory. Domination won in 1405. (Actually, if the Aztecs played it right, I would have needed marines to take their last island. Three-tile islands are easy to defend until then.) My score was 4398.
Nathan
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watorrey
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Rochester, NY, USA
Oct 2001
time: 00:20
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Well... i didn't read this thread until just now. I had a really hard time with this game because i built my FP right next to Thebes with the hopes of using my second leader to move the palace later. I never got a second leader. Bummer.
I had to kill the Romans twice. They respawned on the island directly south of the main one. I used war chariots to take them out which means i got a really early GA. I needed a few horsemen as well because of the mountains. With the lighthouse, i was the only one in contact with the others and i made sure nobody else got contact with the Romans.
Most of the other islands became egyptian territory. The Aztecs decided to attack me on that little desert island after they got navigation. This lead to a long war for them with the rest of the world. I eventually took a city of thiers and razed it to make room for one of mine on thier mainland. They had a ton of culture and i didn't want thier citizens in my city. This lead to a long defensive war until i got enough troops over there to start taking over. It also whittled down thier military. The others kept making peace so i kept resigning alliances with them. Eventually most of the island was mine with one Babylonian and one Chinese city.
Immediately after that, the Babylonians attaked me. Same deal here. Kept resigning alliances to keep the world at war. My first attept at invasion failed. Four galleons full of calvalry and a couple of infantry lost to thier longbowmen. So i had to rethink the invasion plans. This time it was 4 galleons full of infantry. I razed all thier cities except Babylon and Niniveh. The Japanese got one city and the chinese got one. I also took thier colonies to the west.
Almost immediately, the Japanese declare war on the Chinese. The same time the Chinese try to demand combustion from me. So, on my turn i join in with the Japanese against the chinese. The Chinese were quite large and the Japanese wouldn't stand a chance. This happened right about the time i got tanks. I took out thier island cities and headed for the mainland. My goal was to get thier luxuries. I kept the wine, insence, and gem cities, the rest got razed. Wonders or not.
I had decided on a conquest game by this time since it was the late 1800's and i suspect others would have a much earlier domination. With the poor placement of my FP and palace, techs came slow, gold was tight, and it took a long time to build culture.
Then the same for the Japanese. I tried keeping at least one city on every island but i was so close to the domination limit, i abandoned a few of the worthless cities i had founded. Culture was also an issue by now. I sold many temples but i don't think i had to.
The die rolls in this game sucked. My elites couldn't win anything. At one point i was having better luck with cavalry against infantry instead of tanks. Later, my mech infantry was doing a better job than tanks. (Are you sure you don't have something edited?) I lost many cavalry offensivly to longbowmen. Very frustrating, especially knowing my palace was in the wrong spot. I stopped researching after computers. The Japanese were the only ones left and they didn't have battleships yet.
Anyway... it was an interesting game even if i didn't play it very well. I KNOW i could have done better with the FP placement. I would have built a new palace even if i got a leader on the last turn... hehe.
Conquest victory in 1972
Score = 3487
 Attachment: watorrey_june02, 1971 ad.sav
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nbarclay
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Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:20
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Sounds like the lack of rivers was a bigger deal than I'd hoped it would be. Rivers are definitely nice for science in the early stages of the game. Unfortunately, the map settings I used for this game do not tend to favor their existence, so I figured having good bonus tiles near the starting position was probably good enough.
I think I've tried the palace jump trick exactly once, and it worked as expected. Normally, I regard it as too wasteful because of all the improvements I have in my original capital. But if the FP is practically next door to the original palace and there's no great leader in sight, and if you can get an overseas city you've founded yourself big enough to match any of the core cities, it would almost certainly be worth a try. As I recall, there's some good material on how it works over at CivFanatics. My strategy with the FP was to build it in my city just south of the chokepoint where it could help corruption in the former Roman cities before I moved my palace and still keep my original core reasonably productive after I moved it. (Although as it turned out, the build was slow enough that I think I was ready to move my palace - complete with a great leader to do the job - by the time the FP was finished.)
By the way, I've never even tried to mod my copy of Civ 3. So unless someone came up with a mod that uses downloaded games to infect new game settings, we were definitely playing stock 1.21f.
Nathan
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Carcajou
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Laval, Quebec
Jan 2002
time: 00:20
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This was a tough game :
1) Rough Terrain with Hlls/Mountains/Tundra
2) No River, only a few Lakes for Irrigation
War with Rome in 600BC for a very early Golden Age.
I made peace in 510BC for 2 Techs.
War again with Rome in 400AD, when asked to leave (defeated in 700AD).
Aztecs declared war in 800AD after my refusal to give contact with Babylon. Peace 5 turns later for unpowder.
Aztecs again declared war in 1250AD after refusing to give Chivalry.
Babylon declared war in 1350AD when asked to leave.
Japan declared war in 1430AD, an Alliance with the Aztecs.
Steam Power in 1435AD, but no Coal on my Island. I rushed in 4 Galleons (12 Cavalry / 4 Musketmen) towards a tiny Aztec Island.
My 3 enemies were having minor invasions on my Island and I got GL Ramsčs in 1600AD.
Replaceable Parts in 1625AD, again no Rubber on my Island. Moreover, the AI Civs having Cavalty/Riflemen, it will be more difficult to reach Rubber Island. In the meantime, peace with Babylon for Medicine and Navigation. Magellan in 1685AD and the following turn Theory of Evolution using GL.
Around 1750AD, at last I got Infantry to protect Rubber Town from Aztec/Japanese attacks. Second GL for a 3-Tank Army to support the invasion of the Aztec Empire in 1850AD. I made peace with Japan the same turn for Sanitation.
First and second captured Cities reverted back; I then decided to razed them instead.
In 1900AD, 3rd GL in capturing the Aztec Capital. The following turn, Technochtitlan became the relocated Egyptian Capital.
In 1924AD, I was forced into a war with Japan. I had a MPP with Babylon. That was followed by Anarchy and 25 years in Monarchy.
Finally in 1950AD, in peace with all Civs. Not for long, since Babylon invaded Rubber Island.
In 1982AD, I captured the City of Ur and got GL #4 the next turn in defending the Town. Then something very unusual happened : Great Wonder SETI in 1988AD using GL and, on the very next move, GL #5 (his name was Seti). I used him for a 4-Mech.Inf Army #4.
Of course I had Heroic Epic, Military Academy and Pentagon.
In 1993AD, Uruk reverted back to Babylon and a message said :
Cultural Victory with 1898 points.
P.S. (At CivFanatics my name is Gargouille)
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nbarclay
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Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:20
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I think I posted everything I did in defining the settings. As for the rest, your guess is as good as mine, maybe better since it's been a couple weeks since I looked at the map. As I recall, the variables that ended up random were temperature, age, and wet/dry. (And, of course, the civs involved, but that's only a mystery until the map is explored.) The tundra in northern Rome was what let me feel safe assuring people they wouldn't be stuck with warm and wet (since some prospective players had expressed concern about the possibility of a game without oil).
I agree that romping over opponents with modern armor is loads of fun. But cavalry can do almost as good a job if you get them early enough, and when I'm out to dominate the world, I tend to get a bit impatient. The down side is, my game didn't last long enough for me to find out about sources of oil, rubber, aluminum, or uranium.
Nathan
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Txurce
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Santa Monica CA USA
Mar 1999
time: 05:20
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Reviewing the posts already made, I am again very impressed by the efforts you all made to win via domination, which is not the path I took.
Looking back over this game, it’s possible to win it without the Great Lighthouse, if détente could be established with Rome. Arguing against this is the fact that the other four civs would make contact much earlier, and probably leave Egypt in the dust technologically.
I chose the conservative route. After building settlers galore up to the mountain chokepoint, I decided to trigger a Golden Age by loosing my chariots on Rome around 800 BC, while simultaneously building the Great Lighthouse. Rome had no iron or horses, and fell victim to swooping WCs protected by spearmen on high ground. I paused once to extort all their techs, then delivered the coup de grace in 510 BC.
However, the war netted me only one elite unit, and not even close to one GL. This meant I would have to build the FP, which in turn meant building it fairly close to Thebes – at the chokepoint. It also meant I couldn’t easily bounce my palace offshore. This led me to an even more conservative decision: to quit expanding and win via space-race.
I built the Great Lighthouse, and set sail. By 50 AD I had met all the civs but the Aztecs; by 300, I had sold contact to everyone. I founded a republic late – in 410 – and after completing the FP in 690, filled in my continent with a total of 15 cities. I built the Sistine Chapel in 750, but missed Copernicus by two, Newton by three, and Suffrage by one. Democracy was introduced a little late (I was chasing Newton, then lost track), around 1200.
Business as usual took a skip when I discovered I had no coal. This led to my building a city on the island to the south in 1390, where the Chinese had already settled. But due to frequent trade, the world was a surprisingly peaceful place. Other than my destruction of Rome, there had only been a static war between China and Japan versus Babylon.
This changed very soon. The Aztecs were the #1 civ, and declared war on Egypt after failing to extort Scientific Method. My tech lead paid off as I instantly recruited the rest of the world in an alliance against the Aztecs, in exchange for one tech. I easily fought off three Aztec riflemen with my WC-upgraded cavalry, and started to rake in the really big bucks from tech trade after building the TOE in 1520. Around this time I learned that my hilly continent also had no rubber, so I sent off seven cavalry and one riflemen to take the rubber-producing Aztec city to the east of the island to my south. I took it in 1610, abandoned it, and built a new city on the coastal rubber source. Soon after, I made peace with the Aztecs for a lot of cash.
In 1685 the Babylonians made peace with the Aztecs after taking three island cities (the Chinese took one). These were the only AI military gains in the entire game. As this war ended, little Japan declared war against big China. I am waiting to see what happens, as I hold my tech lead, feel the love of all but the Aztecs, and watch my treasury head toward 5000 gold. In 1705 I researched MT, and am now building an armored defense to complement my wads of artillery. Airports for my offshore resource centers are next.
This very quick, mostly mindless game reminds me of Civ2: fun in a very different way. On Monarch, a 15-city core is enough to all but guarantee a peaceful victory, as long as no other civ becomes too huge; on an archipelago map, this was all but an impossibility. To a degree, I feel like I played this game the easy way; my only defense is that I had never played on an archipelago map before, and didn’t want to screw up royally in my first tourney.
I’ll post a wrap-up when I finish. The game is well into that slow, dull section.
Attachment: cleopatra apolyton, 1710 ad.sav
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Txurce
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Santa Monica CA USA
Mar 1999
time: 05:20
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I finished my game in 1872, via diplomatic victory. I was well on my way to space, but didn't want to play anymore. I have never been better liked - the vote was three for me, Mao for Mao, and the ostracized Aztecs abstaining.
Very little of note went on since my last post (1710). The Aztecs attacked again in 1812, were instantly repulsed, and once again had the whole world declare war on them. This time I took the two-city island that gave them oil and rubber, but otherwise only fought them on the high seas.
Anything else? Well, I had almost 20,000 gold saved by the end, but couldn't get tech close to the four-turn minimum. That's what I get for basically refusing to expand from the home turf.
The attached save is close enough.
Attachment: cleopatra apolyton, 1860 ad.sav
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DrFell
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Well, I had had enough of playing for domination and conquest victories, so I decided to go for a spaceship victory (something I've only tried once before). I knew it would probably give me a slower finish than some, but it would give me a chance to try a more builder type strategy, made easy because it's monarch! (I'm used to deity).
The start position was pretty good, but the rest of the island was mediocre. I quickly filled it up with nicely spaced cities, and closed the choke point leading to Rome. After heading to republic and mapmaking, I started exploring the area around my island. I quickly found a fairly decent island I could palace jump to (the island to the south of the one I started on), and when I switched into republic I engineered a short war with Rome, to trigger my golden age. At this point I decided to go all out research, building libraries, harbours, and marketplaces in most cities.
Not too long afterwards I made contact with Japan and China. They only had a tech or two which I didn't have, unfortunately, but I was able to sell techs on to them for a fair price. Using some strategic tech-trading, I got into the middle ages pretty quick, and then went on a path for universities (made contact with Babylon and got monotheism from them, after researching engineering). Nothing exciting happened for awhile after this, I managed to get the AI to research chemistry and invention for me, but after that they were of little use, as I had too big a tech lead. I sold off a lot of techs to them so I could keep science as high as possible (and traded off my strategic resources too for extra cash and luxuries). I also managed to build nearly all the science wonders (only 'missed' GL because I deliberately didn't build it).
Unfortunately, the formerly weak Japan decided to conquer and wipe China off of their continent (suprising because China had once been the strongest power in the game apart from me when I first met them, and Japan had been the second weakest). China had been a strong trading partner, but I never got much cash out of them after that.
By the end of the industrial age, I was 5-6 techs ahead of the most advanced AIs. I sold off my old techs for huge amounts of gold per turn, which helped keep my research engine running. The modern age slowed things down a bit, with average research times being about 6 turns for a tech. I also decided to go to war again with Rome for fun (lots of cities had nothing useful to build but wealth at this point), and to take away their oil source. I easily cut through them with my infantry and artillery, capturing Rome and a couple other cities. Not too long after this I managed to build and launch my spaceship, getting a victory in 1770. This game was also the first time I've built and found the iron works useful Quite an interesting game, and I've continued it and gone for the world conquest with modern armours.
Attachment: junetourneyegyptspaceship1768.sav
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Txurce
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Santa Monica CA USA
Mar 1999
time: 05:20
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Dr Fell, I noticed that your second capital was size 25. How did you grow it to that size, and why?
I tried my first palace jump the other day, aiming for a size 6 on the other end of my civ. Despite every other city being a size 3 or less, the palace only jumped one city, to another 3. My only guess is that the 3 which got the new palace had more improvements.
Any thoughts? because yes, I was quite frustrated.
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06-06-2002 11:44
I lost 6 swordsmen to one spearmen on a plain. I kept losing 3 swordsmen to every enemy I took. I took one city and had to accept peace. This was the most unfair results I have personally ever seen
Random bad luck, but it hurt me enough so I don't think I can make the top 10.
I was also a ways behind in tech. I grabbed big islands b4 the AI, but my decision to build the FP in Rome (far away) really hurt me the most
I only got farther behind in tech.
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