28-12-1999 04:26									#1
	Empire Size Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Hi!

I know the issue has been brought up before, but what are the empire size limits for the different governments?
Could someone make a list?

BTW, does the difficulty level matter?
[This message has been edited by Methos (edited December 27, 1999).]

	28-12-1999 13:17									#2
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Hi Methos,

The followings are the cities limit on different government, if you need more info drop me a mail and I shall email you the government table in Excel format.

• Anarchy 1000
  
• Tranny 10
  
• Monarchy 20
  
• Theoracy 40
  
• Republic 30
  
• Commiunism 70
  
• Fascism 70
  
• Ecotopia 100
  
• Corporate Republic 100
  
• Technocracy 110
  
• Virtual Democracy 120
  

	29-12-1999 06:13									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Hey, Methos--where you been hiding?

Yeah, Dreamer has it right, but there are other factors for determining a government's empire size values. Here, this is from my modified version of Fundamentalism:

quote: EMPIRE_DISTANCE_SCALE 0.002 MIN_EMPIRE_DISTANCE 750 MAX_EMPIRE_DISTANCE 3500

This is set up for a 198 X 396 map, however.
And then you have more stuff from from Const.txt (not really regarding govs, but important still). -->

quote: MAX_EMPIRE_DIST_COST 10.0 # max distance unhappyness

and

quote: DISTANCE_FROM_CAPITOL_ADJUSTMENT 0 AI_DISTANCE_FROM_CAPITOL_ADJUSTMENT 0

this is from DiffDB.txt...doesn't have anything to do with what you're askign, but I thought there was something in this file about that. Nope. Lots of stuff I haven't really looked into yet, though.

Like this:

quote: POPULATION_FACTOR 1.0 CITY_FACTOR 3.0 PEACE_FACTOR 1.0 TURN_FACTOR 0.15 DIFFICULTY_BONUS 200.0 MAP_FACTOR 0.02 OPPONENTS_FACTOR 75.0

Wonder what "map factor" means?

And these two

quote: AI_INTELLIGENCE_FACTOR 1 AI_GANG_UP_FACTOR 1

are the same for every difficulty level. Hmmm. Has anyone tried raising these two?

Anyway, I digress

Later.

T.

	06-01-2000 21:09									#4
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	08-01-2000 21:56									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Hello Nordicus, I hear you, I just don't have time to be around as much as I want too, therefore I don't post much...

I think Republic should be higher than Theocracy, Theocracies are in most cases based on a strong Hierarchy, and corruption increases the further away you get from the elite of the Hierarchy, while in the case of Republic, they can alwasy be run as a union of minor states (U.S), therefore lowering the control of the hierarchy. I have never understood why anyone would want to run republic anyway, at least without CD:s mod.
And who can bare the pain of owning 120 cities? The Micromanagement is to big even at 30-40 cities...

	10-01-2000 12:12									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Does anyone have the defaults for the apolyton pack, and I was wondering if it changes with difficulty? Also the Republic in the game is supposed to be an ancient republic, like Athens and Rome were, I know Rome got big, but what happened when it did? Coup!
[This message has been edited by JamesJKirk (edited January 10, 2000).]

	16-01-2000 00:37									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

JKirk:
Good point.
Not sure what you mean by 'defaults'? To check that, look in your Scenario Apolyton folder, in default(is that what you mean?)/gamedata...
Nevermind--just looked: there is a DiffDB file in there, and this controls difficulty levels...but I'm not sure...it also controls other stuff. If you have a program that can compare that file with a raw CTP DiffDB.txt files, it'd be a good way to tell (if you don't, email me and I'll send you one).

Methos:
Oh, there you are
You have a point as well. But to answer

quote: And who can bare the pain of owning 120 cities?

this...well, I have to say me for one! Anyone who wants to conquer (and not starve the city afterward) has to deal with managing it all that. When I have over a hundred cities stretching across Russia, it's not too hard: queues. That's the ticket. Usually have about 10 or so going, some for units, whatever, depends what I need the city for.

But there does need to be a modern Republic type gov--Parimentary Republic? I have a Democratic Republic planned; have a bunch of new govs.

Later.

------------------
"There can be no maximum of creation without a concomitant maximum of destruction, no supreme good without supreme evil"--Heller, paraphrasing Nietzsche.

"The more passion for the argument, the less evidence for it"--Russel.


"I *may* have solved some of the problem with specialists tonight. Then again, I may have screwed things up- I don't know. If that happens, I won't know whether to laugh, cry, or both. God, I'm starting to sound like Nordicus (the horror!). "--Wes Whitaker, during AAIPs testing.
[This message has been edited by Nordicus (edited January 15, 2000).]

	25-01-2000 03:37									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

*bump*

	25-01-2000 05:45									#9
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The city limits are set in govern.txt. The line is:

TOO_MANY_CITIES_THRESHOLD

It would be nice if this changed with difficulty, but it *needs* to change with map size for sure.

------------------
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	26-01-2000 03:49									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I like the way the city limit is fixed. This is what makes larger maps more challenging.

	26-01-2000 05:17									#11
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pchang65,

I think I understand your point, but I often get to a point late in a game where I'm rolling along taking the AI's cities (which used to be easier before AAIPs - thanks guys!) and I don't like the idea of slowing down or stopping just to wait for a few cities to get to the magic 3 pop so I can disband them and move on. I picked Virtual Democracy and upped the max city count on it. I never understood why this type of advanced government should have unhappiness due to distance from capitol or too many cities. It's supposed to eliminate poverty and discrimination. It's virtual, right? I figured that empire size shouldn't matter. For me, it takes away some of the tedium that I used to encounter late in games (build queue templates a very helpful too!). I don't think it makes the game more (or less) challenging. It does, however, make the game more enjoyable, which maybe a more important consideration.

	26-01-2000 12:05									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Does anyone know if there is a max unhappiness for city limits