07-06-2002 22:12									#1
	SUGGESTION: Variable Corruption Slide Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

After taking a break from CIV 3, and returning with the new patch I was amazed at how much the game has changed with the reduced effect of corruption. I realize that the heavy corruption cost was hated when the game first released, but consider how much the game changes with the degree of corruption.
Corruption determines the marginal value of cities as well as the degree in which their return diminishes. Therefore high corruption limits the number of cities that it is cost-efficient to build. Fewer cities lead to fewer units and lower micro-management in the later part of the game. Also, it increases the opportunity cost of building city improvements and wonders due to fewer points of production. Warmongering is also less important as the cities gained are less valuable. In short, high corruption substantialy benefits a small "builder" strategy while low corruption benefits a sprawling "momentum" strategy.
As such, I think that corruption should be adjustable on the preference page when a new game is begun. It think it makes as significant of an impact on the game as Continental Drift/Moisture/Temperature/Age and much more of an impact than Barbarian Activity.
I think it would be relatively easy to add five radio buttons to the New Game GUI to adhust this. Five sample "settings" could be as follows:

1. Lowest - "Fairy Land"
2. Low - "Sunday School"
3. Medium - "One for you, Two for me"
4. High - "Stinkin' Thieves"
5. Highest - "Get Your Hand Outta My Pocket!"

	07-06-2002 22:44									#2
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This has already been put in the editor, and I think that's where it belongs.

	08-06-2002 00:03									#3
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by dunk999 This has already been put in the editor, and I think that's where it belongs.

hi ,

and dont forget the fact about the buildings , you can remove that to , ...

have a nice day

	08-06-2002 12:28									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I totally agree with sofaking. Why should it belong in the editor? The way the game is now you will get [Highest - "Get Your Hand Outta My Pocket!"] on a huge map and on a small map [Lowest - "Fairy Land"]. It would be very nice to change this in the game setup screen depending on what kind of map you're playing.

	08-06-2002 20:18									#5
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quote: Originally posted by statusperfect I totally agree with sofaking. Why should it belong in the editor? The way the game is now you will get [Highest - "Get Your Hand Outta My Pocket!"] on a huge map and on a small map [Lowest - "Fairy Land"]. It would be very nice to change this in the game setup screen depending on what kind of map you're playing.

hi ,

check again in the editor , its there , ......

have a nice day

	09-06-2002 00:18									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I think he's saying it should be in more than the editor, but also in the game setup screen.

What I don't understand is how Firaxis can say things like "We streamlined the game to make it more accessable for newbies", and then when someone asks about something the most common answer is "It's in the editor." Having to go into the editor to change a simple thing seems to me to be less streamlined and user friendly than if it were something in the preferences or game setup screen.

	09-06-2002 01:32									#7
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I glade Firaxis put it in the editor because it has a great impact upon the game. That said wouldn't it be nice if, at the start of every MP game, there was a slider for each thing. The players could decide (on a 1-10 scale) how many strategic resources on the map, how much of diversity of tiles on the map, how old, how much water, contents or islands, and many other things.
I know the game let's us change these things already but I'm talking about making it easier to use. You'd simply go to one place, during the start of the game, and everyone on MP can see exactly what peramiters the map will have. That would simplify MP games.

	09-06-2002 01:36									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

As an example of my last post I shall use CTP2. If I want to change the game set up before launching an MP game I just hit one button which takes me to the sliders. I can then chat with the other players and adjust the sliders until everyone is happy then start the game.
In Civ3 it seems like I would have to go to the server, locate players, decide who will host the game, negotiate what settings to use, leave the server and go to the editor, change the settings, log back in with the server, make sure everyone likes the settings (if not then I'll have to log off and go back to the editor to change the settings), and finally start the game.

Which approach sounds easier and less time consuming?

	09-06-2002 02:44									#9
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quote: Originally posted by SwitchMoO I think he's saying it should be in more than the editor, but also in the game setup screen. What I don't understand is how Firaxis can say things like "We streamlined the game to make it more accessable for newbies", and then when someone asks about something the most common answer is "It's in the editor." Having to go into the editor to change a simple thing seems to me to be less streamlined and user friendly than if it were something in the preferences or game setup screen.

hi ,

okay , you win , what do you want to know , .......

have a nice day

	11-06-2002 06:46									#10
	Got spare money?

quote: I think he's saying it should be in more than the editor, but also in the game setup screen. What I don't understand is how Firaxis can say things like "We streamlined the game to make it more accessable for newbies", and then when someone asks about something the most common answer is "It's in the editor." Having to go into the editor to change a simple thing seems to me to be less streamlined and user friendly than if it were something in the preferences or game setup screen.

If there is some confusion on how to do somthing in the editor, there is always the help file.

If you still don't understand, goto the Civ3- Creation or Civ3- Help forums and make a thred. I'm sure someone would be gald to help, just make sure you check the documentation and at least the first and second pages of the forums first, just to see if it was answered already.

	11-06-2002 21:46									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 If there is some confusion on how to do somthing in the editor, there is always the help file. If you still don't understand, goto the Civ3- Creation or Civ3- Help forums and make a thred. I'm sure someone would be gald to help, just make sure you check the documentation and at least the first and second pages of the forums first, just to see if it was answered already.

It isn't an issue of knowing or not knowing how to use he editor. It was simply a suggestion for how to make the game easier to use and more efficent.

	11-06-2002 21:53									#12
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What is inefficient about setting up scenarios once that have the rules you like to play with?

	11-06-2002 21:59									#13
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The point is in MP you don't know how you want it set up until you meet and speak with the prospective players. Thus you should be able to change the settings without leaving the server.

	12-06-2002 00:17									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

When I originally posted this I was not aware that the slide had been in the editor. However, since then I have fixed it and it works well in single player mode. Regardless, as stated above, how will this work in multiplayer? Unless there is some complex checks and validations, you will be forced to make a severe leap of faith when you play with anyone who has made a modification. I recall a few years ago playing Age of Empires online with some random guy who claimed to have only modified the name of his Civ. You can imagine my surprise when I moved in for the kill and encountered the cars from Twisted Metal devestating my knights and archers. That game represented about an hour wasted. If that happened in a game of CIV, it would be a significantly greater amount of time down the drain. My point is, if you're going to add Multiplayer funcitonality anyway, a few additions to the GUI is not a big deal.

	12-06-2002 06:41									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin It isn't an issue of knowing or not knowing how to use he editor. It was simply a suggestion for how to make the game easier to use and more efficent.

So you're saying it's NOT already easy to use?


Make the game more idiot proof, and you might as well put a PlaySchool logo besides the Firaxis' logo.

	12-06-2002 06:43									#16
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quote: Originally posted by SofaKing When I originally posted this I was not aware that the slide had been in the editor. However, since then I have fixed it and it works well in single player mode. Regardless, as stated above, how will this work in multiplayer? Unless there is some complex checks and validations, you will be forced to make a severe leap of faith when you play with anyone who has made a modification. I recall a few years ago playing Age of Empires online with some random guy who claimed to have only modified the name of his Civ. You can imagine my surprise when I moved in for the kill and encountered the cars from Twisted Metal devestating my knights and archers. That game represented about an hour wasted. If that happened in a game of CIV, it would be a significantly greater amount of time down the drain. My point is, if you're going to add Multiplayer funcitonality anyway, a few additions to the GUI is not a big deal.

From what I understand... you'll be able to download someone else's mod before a game starts. It'll check if you have the mod, and if not, be given the option to download it.

	12-06-2002 22:26									#17
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I'm not saying make it easier. Though I never plan on modding, I know that the editor is quite easy to use. All I'm saying is a) Firaxis went against one of their mission statements; and b) there is nothing wrong with making anything more efficient, unless it takes away from time better spent on more important stuff. That's it.

If they included the slider, I probably wouldn't use it much. I like the game as it is. I'm just confused as to how Firaxis can say what they said, and then when anyone asks for something the typical response is "It's in the editor," which doesn't help those perfectionists out there (like me) who don't like to mess around with a good thing.

	12-06-2002 23:59									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Yes, thrawn, why are you angry at sofaking- it is MUCH easier for people to access the slider if it is an initialization option, much like Civ 3's options.

for people who don't want to see it as an option, then they could bypass the 'adjust this game' options!

And in addition- Why should someone have to open and adjust an entirely different section of the game to accomplish something- make the game easier- please.

	13-06-2002 06:38									#19
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud Yes, thrawn, why are you angry at sofaking- it is MUCH easier for people to access the slider if it is an initialization option, much like Civ 3's options. for people who don't want to see it as an option, then they could bypass the 'adjust this game' options! And in addition- Why should someone have to open and adjust an entirely different section of the game to accomplish something- make the game easier- please.

I'm not angry at sofaking... I just think the suggestion is pretty redundent considering there is also a corruption slid in the editor. Just slide it the way you like it... and save it as "My corruption slid" or what-not. You don't need to change anything else... so the game is still original.

Next thing you know... people will be asking for a "lethal bombardment" option in the menu.