09-06-2002 14:11									#31
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coming to think about it: Marcus you're dutch so maybe you'd know this: I was at a dutch movie festival some years ago, dragged by a friend, but I was so glad I went in the end. One of the films that really impressed me was done by one of your most well known directors?
I don't know his name, that is what I am asking you.

I'm afraid the only think I know is the plot of that movie.

A kid, orphan from a father (it seemed) was raised by his sentimentaly detached and very strict mother. They change neighboorhoods because the social stigma of him being not the product of a marriage turned the neighborhood against him and his mother. He grows up and goes to work at a company. He is very poor. Later on it is revieled that the owner? of that company is actually his father but he is also a very cruel man.
He actually doesn't help him at all but instead puts even more obstacles on his way.
The film reaches its crescendo when the man explodes in a wave of fury and attacks his father. He has him pinned down, holds a knife over his father's head and decides what to do.

My english are too poor to offer a more vivid or a more complex and spherical description of its many facedes.

Anyway, this what I remember of the film. It was IIRC made by one of your most famous directors. Would you know his name perhaps? So I can track down more of his films?
Thanks.
(the film dialogues were in dutch BTW of course)

Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 09-06-2002 at 14:16

	09-06-2002 17:09									#32
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I think you're refering to the movie Karakter. It won an Oscar. It's based on a literary masterpiece, which I read some years ago.

	09-06-2002 17:11									#33
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I believe Van Diem was the director, but I have to look it up. The author of the book was Bordewijk btw (who died in 1965).

	09-06-2002 17:18									#34
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara L'Humanité

I've seen that one. Can really get why you walked out on that one. It's really slow and boring.

	10-06-2002 01:29									#35
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Skandinavian cinema really depresses me. Perhaps I hold this impression because of Bergmann, but still, the language sounds dull and really gives me the glooms.

	10-06-2002 01:35									#36
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Zorba it ain't.

	10-06-2002 04:23									#37
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quote: Originally posted by axi I also like all the films with Jean Reno, like "Les rivieres pourpres" because i think he's cool.

You mean you liked Godzilla and the new version of Rollerball ?

	10-06-2002 04:32									#38
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Godzilla yes, he's the only thing that saves the film. Rollerball I haven't seen yet, but Jean Reno is one more reason for me to go see it (which I won't do btw, because I don't like the scenario).

	10-06-2002 05:49									#39
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By and large, I agree with Che. Many French movies have the pacing and editing of either documentaries or porn and end up not being true to the essential story.

If you get past the torrent of pap, Hollywood does quite well with good stories. The French really can't compete, but they do OK for a country of France's size. Other than France and India, are there any other countries that have a stable of home-grown directors who put out fare with regularity?

The French are incredibly inconsistent, and when they work with others it sometimes evens out their inconsistencies. Sometimes they can do a movie that could never be done in Hollywood.

Some of my faves include The Double Life of Veronique (Irène Jacob is HOT!), La Femme Nikita, Red/Blue/White, Manon of the Spring. I like long takes, but sometimes the French filmmakers indulge themselves too much.

	10-06-2002 05:53									#40
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FYI: Here are the international box office numbers. I have to hand it to the French. They are only of the only countries that isn't almost 100% Hollywood.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/intl/

	10-06-2002 08:41									#41
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Saw the Le Dîner de cons a few weeks ago...

I liked that one so much, that as part of the thank you gift to my friend for letting us stay with him in Hawaii, I got him Ridicule.

Others not mentioned that I've seen include Les Rivières pourpres starring Jean Reno and Vincent Cassel; and Le Goût des autres.

What about Cyrano de Bergerac ?????

A classic movie - far better than Steve Martin's 'Roxanne' anyway!

	10-06-2002 16:11									#42
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quote: Hollywood does quite well with good stories.

Too bad that 99% of the hollywood movies don't have good stories.

	10-06-2002 17:45									#43
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I saw 'Let there be light', that was a good movie. ONe thing I've noticed in French movies s that there is ALWAYS a compulsory nude/scantily clad scene. Not that I'm complaining

	10-06-2002 19:03									#44
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"Too bad that 99% of the hollywood movies don't have good stories."

You're way too harsh. If you look over the years, Hollywood does exceptionally well at story telling. Otherwise, Hollywood would never have been successful.

	10-06-2002 19:09									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Zevico I saw 'Let there be light', that was a good movie. ONe thing I've noticed in French movies s that there is ALWAYS a compulsory nude/scantily clad scene. Not that I'm complaining

It´s by no means compulsory. In RL people get naked all the time, not like you average american movie/soap where the actresses wake up dressed and with full make up after a night of supposedly steaming sex.

Europeans in general and french (and swedes) in particular show it the way it is, we don´t have that immense fear of sexuality that saturates the movie industry in Hollywood.

	10-06-2002 19:27									#46
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Mannon of the Spring was pretty good. I didn't like the sequel as much.

Can't believe nobody has mentioned The Return of Martin Guerre. One of the most interesting movies I've ever seen.

Also really liked Dear Inspector, with Annie Girardot as a french homocide investigator. The American remake was not nearly as good. There was a sequel entitled Jupiter's Thigh, which I have not seen.

	10-06-2002 20:04									#47
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cyrano de bergerac is truly a masterpiece. the french version theone with departieu. the english version is a complete disgrace, i almost fell off my chair laughing when i saw it. stil to 2 lock stock and smoking barels, way better genre for english cinema.

the book of cyrano is also a must to those who can grasp some french.


in contrary with axi i really enjoy scandinavian cinema, whicxh is not onl;y ber5gam

p.s. dont mind my spelling

	10-06-2002 20:06									#48
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also greek cinema has seen a rivaval. too bad it is not known outside. (and imn not talking about angelopoulos - and not about safe sex either)

	10-06-2002 20:19									#49
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dank u marcus

	10-06-2002 22:42									#50
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quote: You're way too harsh. If you look over the years, Hollywood does exceptionally well at story telling. Otherwise, Hollywood would never have been successful.

the reason Hollywood is so succesful is because it appeals to the general public. Big names, big budget, cool special effects, not too complex storyline. And the public eats it up.

Just look at Titanic, Attack of the Clones, Indenpendence Day, Mission Impossible 2, etc. All huge box office block busters. Very succesfull, but not that much when it comes to a good story line.

And there are some exceptions. Yet they aren't nearly as popular as the rest usually.

And please stop saying that Hollywood is so succesful because of their story telling skills. Makes you look silly

quote: dank u marcus

any time

	10-06-2002 22:48									#51
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the top movies of the last years (worldwide grosses)

2002 Spider-Man $433.8
2001 Harry Potter $965.8
2000 Mission: Impossible 2 $565.4
1999 The Phantom Menace $923.1
1998 Armageddon $554.6
1997 Titanic $1,835.1
1996 Independence Day $813.2
1995 Die Hard: With a Vengeance $365.0

Do you see any good story telling in these big movies? I wouldn't give any of those a score higher than 6/10 when it comes to the stories.

	10-06-2002 22:50									#52
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hollywood is for stupid movies.
that's why they call it hollywood.

stupid movies are good for relaxation and for w@anking your brain.

sometimes we need them also.
but dont expect anything grat to come out of it.
it is just like hamburgers, junk food for the mind.

exceptions are few IMO

	10-06-2002 23:07									#53
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hollywood is great

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	10-06-2002 23:14									#54
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Spider Man, Harry Potter, and Titanic were all top-notch stories.

	10-06-2002 23:19									#55
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please

	10-06-2002 23:27									#56
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(in no particular order)

1)Alien
2)Star wars
3)Star Trek


I could go on but ill stop there. But these are great story lines. French movies are way to melodramatic.

	10-06-2002 23:30									#57
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I do find it funny to see the Euros try to find comfort in some elite club of opinion-makers. Namely, them. Fact is, these are some great stories that transcended cultural boundaries and that people liked a lot.

AS: The Return of Martin Guerre was good. The pacing was too slow, but overall it was a good piece of work.

	10-06-2002 23:34									#58
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we're talking generaly.

generally holywood is w@nker brain, junk food for the mind easy crap. they are need also. someone has to do it
exceptions exist but we are talking about the rule

what you think of as elitism though i just think about it as real cinema.

you dont have to put people in "elitism" neat little boxes just for pointing out the obvious about hollywood DanS.

	10-06-2002 23:38									#59
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I saw "last tango in paris" (I think thats what its called) once. It was complete and utter filth! Yay filth!

	10-06-2002 23:40									#60
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movies that trancend cultural boundaries do NOT have to be brought down to the least common denominator and unfortunately that's what hollywood is doing.

mass cutlure is stipped down from every essence. that's why it can become "mass" -