08-06-2002 10:35									#1
	Can't find answers, Do you Know? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

hello I am somewhat new to the game of civ3
i have a few questions that were never answered in all the websites and strat guides.

1. every one is talking about selling their techs to other civs before they get them. well i was play greek in my last game quite ahead on techs in monarch no ever will take a deal no other civ wants the techs not even for one gold per turn and these were good techs too.
i offer them up and nothing. this has happened in several games they never bite why. (is it my patch or lack there of the latest?) what?

2. if a wonder becomes obsolete like the Oracle does the temple stop working if i get a cathedral can i sell it off? do any city improvments become obsolete?

please help thanx

	08-06-2002 11:22									#2
	Re: Can't find answers, Do you Know? Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by IRON_BRIGADE hello I am somewhat new to the game of civ3 i have a few questions that were never answered in all the websites and strat guides. 1. every one is talking about selling their techs to other civs before they get them. well i was play greek in my last game quite ahead on techs in monarch no ever will take a deal no other civ wants the techs not even for one gold per turn and these were good techs too. i offer them up and nothing. this has happened in several games they never bite why. (is it my patch or lack there of the latest?) what?

Maybe they didn't have 1 gold per turn to give. Try going to the richest civ. I've gotten some pretty good deals. Once I was able to sell computers for every non-required tech, 30 GPT, and 200 lump sum.

quote: 2. if a wonder becomes obsolete like the Oracle does the temple stop working if i get a cathedral can i sell it off? do any city improvments become obsolete? please help thanx

No. If the Oracle becomes obsolete, your improvements will still work. They always continue to work.

Correct me if i'm wrong, of course.

	08-06-2002 12:16									#3
	Re: Can't find answers, Do you Know? Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by IRON_BRIGADE 2. if a wonder becomes obsolete like the Oracle does the temple stop working if i get a cathedral can i sell it off? do any city improvments become obsolete? please help thanx

I just looked at my current game in which I have built the Oracle. I'm in the modern era so it is obsolete and my temples all produce one content face instead of the two they produced before the Oracle went obsolete.

	08-06-2002 12:26									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

ok #2 answered thanks

but #1 no they have plenty of gold you can see it right there when your triing to cut a deal. every strat guide you all have written says that this is as easy as pie but
no they wont budge in fact they even demanded more from me even though i was culturaly superior????

	08-06-2002 12:27									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

City improvements NEVER become obsolete.

The EXTRA effects from some early Wonders do.

The temple will continue to make 1 person happier, even after the Oracle's effects have worn off.

	08-06-2002 14:12									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

As far as tech trading goes, on the higher difficulty levels they AI have a higher tech trading rate, which means they make better deals with other AI nations than they will with you.

	08-06-2002 19:41									#7
	Re: Can't find answers, Do you Know? Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by IRON_BRIGADE 1. every one is talking about selling their techs to other civs before they get them. well i was play greek in my last game quite ahead on techs in monarch no ever will take a deal no other civ wants the techs not even for one gold per turn and these were good techs too. i offer them up and nothing. this has happened in several games they never bite why. (is it my patch or lack there of the latest?) what?

There's a lot of variables when it comes to trading with the AI.

First, some are just down right difficult to deal with. They've all been programmed with a personality when it comes to dealing with the human, and some just don't like to trade with you.

Also, have you been at war with them in the past? They will remember that, and take it into account at the trading table. Especially if you've been razing their cities, and using their Workers as slave labour.

Have you broken treaties with another civ in the game? If they can't trust you, they're less likely to cut you some slack during a deal.

And has been mentioned, the higher the level, the tougher they are to deal with. I'm sure there's a few other variables as well, that I haven't thought of. If you want to trade with anyone, it helps to suck up from time to time. Give them a small "token" of appreciation out of the blue. That will help to get them thinking favourably of you. Sometimes you have to spend money in order to make money.

	08-06-2002 21:50									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Are you being trade embargoed?

Have you tried lumps sums?

Have you tried asking what they would give for the tech?

Do any of them have resources that you want? Aks what they would take for the resource.

Late game trade is very touchy, especially if it's been an aggressive game.

	09-06-2002 18:35									#9
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

usually if they don't pay up, they don't have the gold to do so; I tend to monopolize all the techs, I like to also go and build cities near most of the resources so the AI has nothing to sell or make money off of

	09-06-2002 19:31									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I think the simple answer is that the AI has nothing to trade to you. You're way ahead on techs and are likely the lead nation so aside from them not wanting to trade with you what will they give you in return for the tech ?

	10-06-2002 19:14									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

re #2, obsolete wonders. Mainly changes new culture build by wonder. In F5 screen culture produced by obsolete wonder is now red instead of black. It doesn't continue growing. Most benefits continue but some have been superceeded. For example, when Great Lighthouse expires, you need to get Magellan to continue the 1+ ship movement. {This is theory; I have not tested in game play. It seems like if someone else has Lighthouse and I get Magellan, now I get the 1+ ship movement. Not positive, just missed Lighthouse in present game. I know if I get Magellan I get the 1+ movement. I will try to verify other civ with current 1+ ship movement loses it. First I need to get Magellan}

	10-06-2002 20:30									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I think i'll have it's reason in an Embargo... If you ask em Would you offer something in exchange for ... they'd almost always offer something... Even if they'r low on Trade goods they tend to offer a World Map or some crappy lump sum.
If you make up an Embargo against another Civ the Civ you made it up with will not chancel it if it sees no reason so you must chancel it yourself by klicking on "Active" in the Trade Table and then Doubleklicking on the Embargo Deal...

	10-06-2002 22:14									#13
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Theseus Are you being trade embargoed? Have you tried lumps sums? Have you tried asking what they would give for the tech? Do any of them have resources that you want? Aks what they would take for the resource. Late game trade is very touchy, especially if it's been an aggressive game.

trade embargo where would that come from I havent even started a war.

next question is interesting. No i have not asked what they would give am i missing that option were is that found?

	10-06-2002 22:42									#14
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quote: Originally posted by IRON_BRIGADE next question is interesting. No i have not asked what they would give am i missing that option were is that found?

Remove all the items he has on the table. At the bottom the text will change to ask what he/she will offer for what you're putting up. That's why you've been getting such crappy deals, you have to haggle. They're going to try and get the lowest price they can, so have you work out some halfway point with them. Your advisor will let you know whether the deal is unacceptable or not, or whether you're getting close.

One tip, if they come to you asking for something, don't just accept their offer, make a deal. If they're approaching you, it means that they want something from you badly and might give you a lot for it. I once had the French offer a swap of World Maps, but I decided to see what would happen if I treid to negotiate. Not only did we do the map swap, but I also got Navigation and over 300 gold.

	10-06-2002 22:55									#15
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Right, ALWAYS negotiate / haggle.

IB, Trade Embargoes can start without any wars. I do it to AI civs quite often, especially prior to an upcoming war.

	11-06-2002 18:53									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

re #2 Obsolete techs. Confirmed when Magellan is obtained, extra ship movement of Great Lighthouse goes away. I usually find it hard to get both. It depends on the world which is more important, early building of cities on other land masses, or extra ship movement for modern ships. I prefer Magellan over GLib as it never expires and modern ships can't outrun me.

re #1-- trading. It took me a long time to figure out trades. The trade screen is extremely sensitive to mouse actions. Too many times I meant to single click and double clicked by mistake and accepted a bad deal. Never, never accept a deal as offered. When a deal is offered, note the offer, and clear the table. Then pick and choose what you want. Only about 10% of the time you can't improve the deal. I never trade territory map but often do my world map for their world and territory map, so I know how their civ is laid out. Remember 1) you don't have to make a trade, and 2) almost always you can get some gold from the trading civ. The more gold you take the less they have for hurrying production.

	11-06-2002 22:45									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Willem Remove all the items he has on the table. At the bottom the text will change to ask what he/she will offer for what you're putting up. That's why you've been getting such crappy deals, you have to haggle. They're going to try and get the lowest price they can, so have you work out some halfway point with them. Your advisor will let you know whether the deal is unacceptable or not, or whether you're getting close. One tip, if they come to you asking for something, don't just accept their offer, make a deal. If they're approaching you, it means that they want something from you badly and might give you a lot for it. I once had the French offer a swap of World Maps, but I decided to see what would happen if I treid to negotiate. Not only did we do the map swap, but I also got Navigation and over 300 gold.

I wasnt giving crappy deals i was giving good tech for lump sum 1 gold and still they would say no and they dont have the tech because i would not be able to offer it



Break through last night i played a new style of game i read in the strat guides.
10% fund science buy or trade for all your tech. my tch goal the great library which i did get

i finally found a distant civ to give me 250 for a tech

and found another civ that wanted 700 for the same tech crazy

	11-06-2002 22:49									#18
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??
what good are trade embargoes? if your not trading to begin with

why not just not trade?

does an embargoe somehow effect the AI's viewpoint of you fear or not happy or furious? what?

	11-06-2002 22:59									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by IRON_BRIGADE ?? what good are trade embargoes? if your not trading to begin with why not just not trade? does an embargoe somehow effect the AI's viewpoint of you fear or not happy or furious? what?

Well if you or your allies have a resource that an enemy, or rival doesn't have, an embargo will prevent them from building any units requiring that resource. So you can cripple their military strength. Also, by not getting luxuries, their people won't be as happy, and there for less productive.

	12-06-2002 05:17									#20
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Call me crazy, but it just feels good.

I know I'm going to attack so-and-so civ.... first, get EVERY other nation to declare an embargo.

1. Like Willem said, it makes sure they can;t get resources.

2. No evidence for this, but I'm guessing it less likely that other civs will enter into alliances with a civ they've embargoed.

I just like all the pretty red dashes.