09-02-2000 13:41									#1
	what no thread about... Increase the size of your Attachments

yesterday's news item????

	09-02-2000 14:40									#2
	Put an end to popups!

For me, it is two sided. If they actually release a patch that fixes some of the problems IN THE NEAR FUTURE, I will be thrilled. But, at the same time, I have to sit here and wonder how many hours (days & weeks) I have wasted over the last month working on items they said they would not fix. (Looks like you were right Wes.)

As is, it is a catch-22. If I stop working, they won't fix what I'm working on BUT if I keep on working, they will fix what I am working on. The bright side is, we will find out faster here than anywhere else. Good going, Markos.

Don

[This message has been edited by skorpion59 (edited February 09, 2000).]

	09-02-2000 15:04									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I'm not sure how you'll take it, but....
who talked about a patch

	10-02-2000 10:32									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

So if you know something, spill the beans.

	10-02-2000 00:18									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yes, looks like you are dying to tell us something you promissed not to tell...

Here is a copy of an e-mail exchange I had with a CTP team member, mid november. I did not print it before but I guess it's not that secret. In any case, I didn't promissed I would not do it.

----------------------------------------
Is the development of CTP dead ?

I realize that you probably can't speak one way or the other. If I receive no response I will asume you can't give me an answer.
---------------------------------------

The answer:

Heh heh, no, in fact quite the opposite. We're very busy working on the
sequel, CTP2. But since we're in a looking forward mode now, its hard to
get time allocated for CTP1 tasks. .........
------------------------------------------

The last sentence as something to do with something I asked.

	10-02-2000 00:39									#6
	Put an end to popups!

Just read yesterdays news item, and must admit to being quite surprised.

There are still things which I would like to see improved with CTP, but since I use the Apolyton pack and Wes’s AI (and like many people I suppose, a few of my own minor alterations), I am pretty happy with CTP, especially on multiplay on a LAN where it is more enjoyable than Civ2 or SMAC.

I really had thought that Activision had dropped support for the CTP line on the PC. I remember around the time of Apolytons birthday celebrations, several members of the CTP team were posting on the CTP Creation forum, with 1 or 2 even offering to work with Apolyton members to develop better editing tools etc. Then all of a sudden -
NOTHING.
Not even the then ever helpful Mr Ogre responding to requests for help with SLIC problems. So I figured that’s it then,- whatever progress is to be made with CTP will be down to the enthusiasm of fans on this site. (I recently wondered if the team who did the MAC conversion might add some features to CTP, which might then make it to the PC, but didn’t really expect anything)

Now the strange thing is that even though I am very disappointed by Activisions poor PR and apparent lack of support for this title, if they released an enhancement pack, I would buy it! What a sucker I am.

JimMac

P.S Markos do you know how well/badly CTP sold? In the U.K. I have the impression that SMAC was considered a commercial success while CTP was a failure, yet I read on Games Domain in an article covering their awards, that CTP outsold SMAC. Is this true?


[This message has been edited by JimMac (edited February 09, 2000).]

	10-02-2000 01:01									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

the only sales numbers I have is the top 10 listings for the US from PC Data. they dont contain actual number though, jsut how was first, second, etc
if you do a search in the civ-comparison forum, you'll find a thread of mine comparing how each game went in that chart...

	10-02-2000 01:12									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

sales numbers directly from Lt John: over 500,000 copies(225,000 in the US, more than 275,000 in Europe)
if we find the numbers of smac we'll post them....

	10-02-2000 01:15									#9
	Put an end to popups!

CTP2, that is even better. (I hope.)

But it still doesn't solve my dilema. Apparently my lack of correct wording to Activision, as I did here, caused me to get some incorrect information. It is the same whether it is CTP1 patch or CTP2.

Either way, you can be sure I will be the first in line when it comes out. Anybody know if we are talking about a month or 6 months?

At least this brought a little life back to the CTP forums which have otherwise been drying up lately.

Don

	10-02-2000 01:15									#10
	Put an end to popups!

If its not a patch but some scenario's with their own sprites at least it will save me some work. I only hope they finally reissue the destroyer sprite (and I think some others) so they don't crash the game when zoomed out!

If SMAC outsold CTP in the UK I helped - unfortunately I bought 2 copies of SMAC to play LAN based games - but really hated the graphics and gave up instantly..but that's another story.

	10-02-2000 01:22									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

about smac, John says that SMAC sold 5,000 copies more in the US, but doesnt have intenational numbers

	10-02-2000 01:53									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Thanks for the information Markos, that was quick service.

I am glad to read that it sold much better than I thought. It could indeed make sound business sense to develop further product in the CTP line.

Morgoth, I also tried SMAC on LAN but my other 2 opponents couldn’t get into the unfamiliar technological concepts and the graphics didn’t hold them until they got to grips with it. Have you tried CTP on your LAN set-up? As I mentioned above, I think that it works quite well.

Don- I know that this is not what you meant but lets not put any pressure on them, (even if we could), to release anything before it is ready. We know what happened before...

JimMac

	10-02-2000 09:13									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yeah, Don, it was Daniel's letter I was referring to.
I sent a letter to Activision asking if the game had hard array limits, like PChang asked, and got a reply of "we don't offer any support to people making modifications of the game files." Thanks for nothing.

I'm going to be mad if this sequel just puts in all the code that they left unimplemented in the current game. I mean, most of that stuff is already in SMAC, so I don't see how they can charge us another 35 to 50 dollars just to get the things that should have been in the first game almost a year ago.

Btw, if they have sold half a million copies of this game, you would think that there would be 10 to 50 times as many people downloading the mods here as what there is.
From what I have seen here, most people gave up on the game after a few tries.
[This message has been edited by WesW (edited February 09, 2000).]

	10-02-2000 15:32									#15
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

140,000 DOWNLOADS???????
In words: ONE_HUNDRED_FORTY_THOUSAND?
and CivII which exists years longer than ctp and with triple the amount of files has "only" 94,000?

*impressed*

Ata

	10-02-2000 19:12									#16
	Increase Your PM Length

the number of the civ2 db is since september 98(not since release of civ2!) when it started and is missing a few thousand downloads due to problems we used to have with the scripts.

	10-02-2000 21:14									#17
	Put an end to popups!

My conclusion is:
Cctp out of box is such a crap that everyone looks for something that could make it at least pleable...

I myself have played civ2 for years and the only thing that I ever downloaded was the latest patch...
But after one week of playing Ctp I had already downloaded at least 10 files...

	10-02-2000 21:39									#18
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Where I work, our customer reps don't know answers to questions like "Do you have hard array limits?" either, but they forward those questions to developers like me who answer them (well eventually anyway )

	11-02-2000 10:59									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Do you remember the user replacable .DLL file (Robotcom.DLL) that contain all of the game AI.

They wanted to do a small beta test prior to releasing the headers to everibody. I was supposed to be part of it but they putted it on the shelves when they started to work on CTP II.

I have no infos as to what will be CTP II but we had hints by the lead programmer that it would contain Diplomaty improvments, he even said once it would be a complete re-write. I was even told by him that they were currently at work on it. Of course that was not official and long ago and I guess subject to change.

I tell you what I would do if I were them. I would do an expansion pack and bundle it with the original game. In it I would mainly improve on Diplomaty and change the interface, it would also be tempting to change the tech tree, units, etc. as it do not require any programmer to be perform.

Those (Interface, Diplomaty and play balance) were I think the 3 biggest criticism of the game. They would have good chances to sell it to current owners and also good chances to attract those who did not purchased the game the first time.

For one I would welcome any good additions they make to the game. I loved the game but it grew old on me much faster then I tought it would.

	11-02-2000 00:31									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

JimMac
Yes, I've pretty well only plyed CTP as a LAN game. I probably gave up on SMAC too easily but I have to amit CTP captivated me and SMAC simply didn't.

Katy says some options to build don't seem to appear on the build options but I don't know whether that's a fault of the non hosted game or not. In general for LAN I've not had any real faults - the only one is the destroyer crash - and as far as I can tell to resolve would only take Activision to re-create the Sprite without one indicator set - I'm just amazed they haven't been bothered!

	11-02-2000 02:18									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Morgoth, I'm glad you enjoy CTP on a LAN. I have to agree with you, I now believe that it is the way to play CTP. Its great being able to smirk at your opponents after you win some great battle, or capture one of their settlers after sneaking your slaver around their lands. I hope you get the chance to play against more than one opponent because even though I am sure Katy gives you a challenge, the shifting alliances which develop during the game as the weaker players gang up on the leading player add a whole other dimension to the game.

We haven't noticed a build problem, nor have we experienced the destroyer crash. (We play on the lowest resolution and don't use the zoom controls. I thought that was supposed to cause that crash).

Wes- Considering all the work that you have put into your mods for this game I can understand how you were disappointed with Activisions response. However I think that Markos’s point is well made, I wouldn’t really have expected a more useful answer from a standard help desk .
Looking on the bright side (as you usually do), would you not be interested in another version of CTP which improves what we have and corrects some of its perceived failings?

JimMac

JimMac

	11-02-2000 09:17									#22
	Increase Your PM Length

I would have to see exactly what is in the sequel/expansion pack before I pass judgment on it.
If they give us a true advance, *and* implement the stuff already written in but unused, then I would pay for it.
I will be mad if they want us to pay out more money for just putting in a diplomacy model comparable to SMAC, and implementing things like what we have already done with the AAips and the SLIC group's triggers.

What ticked me off about the Activision response was the way they said it, which was like "we don't tell nobody nuthin'".

	11-02-2000 10:11									#23
	Put an end to popups!

Maybe we should get Don Blevens to ask the question? Somehow, he seems to get answers.