09-06-2002 14:35									#1
	things i rarely use in "civ3" maybe change/modify needed in "ptw&quot Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

terrain feature:
-colonies
-fortresses
-costal fortresses

units:
-Scout
-Explorer
-catapult
-Privateer
-Cannon
-Helicopter
-Stealth Fighter
-Cruise Missile

Intelligence-
-Steal World Map
-Expose Enemy Spy
-Steal Plans

Last edited by m_m_x on 09-06-2002 at 18:41

	09-06-2002 14:59									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

And WHY do these thins need to be tweaked?

	09-06-2002 15:06									#3
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IMHO they dont add much to gameplay,i can play a whole game without using them...so tweaking them a bit can make them much more valuable and useful.

	09-06-2002 19:54									#4
	Put an end to popups!

dp,.

Last edited by Inverse Icarus on 09-06-2002 at 22:31

	09-06-2002 19:57									#5
	Get a bigger avatar today!

well, i always think of MP. it's all i really consider when thinking about game features.

fortresses will be VERY useful in MP, especially since you cant build cities on mountains.

i agree, i never use colonies.

i use coastal fortresses just to take shots at stupid AI boats bombarding random shore tiles. they dont have any upkeep anyway.

i use scouts when i play as expansionist, but it's not often (too weak of an ability).

explorers can pillage / all as roads. thats basically it. i see the whole world by the time i get them, but you got to think, trading maps with humans might not happen as often as with AIs, so they might actually be helpful in MP.

catapult. only built 3 in all my civ games. 2 were to test if lethal bombardment worked.

privateer. dont like em. might be funny in MP if used in swarms.

cannon. i use these a lot.

heli. dont use it too often, mainly just for "annoyance" tactics. might eb fun in MP to drop infantry on mountain tiles, or strategic resources.

Stealh Fig: dont care enough to use them

cruise missle: i increased the range and gave it lethal sea bombard. works great.

i dont use any espigionge because its too expensive and it sucks.

	09-06-2002 20:04									#6
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Double post.

	09-06-2002 20:38									#7
	Re: things i rarely use in "civ3" maybe change/modify needed in "ptw& Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by m_m_x terrain feature: -colonies -fortresses -costal fortresses units: -Scout -Explorer -catapult -Privateer -Cannon -Helicopter -Stealth Fighter -Cruise Missile Intelligence- -Steal World Map -Expose Enemy Spy -Steal Plans

I have to say armies/leaders for the most part. I want to be able to use leaders domestically other than wonders, and I want armies (and fleets/airwings or whatever) to do something more.

	09-06-2002 20:46									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Colonies are useful in certain situations. Fotresses can be a godsend sometimes, and will be used in MP.

The mod I play with certainly improves Helicopters, Cruise Missiles, Marines, Paratroopers and subs.

Intelligence - kinda useless often, but I've made it somewhat cheaper in my mod to balance the usefulness with cost.

	10-06-2002 03:22									#9
	Remove this text

Actually, play on 3-million-year-old maps and colonies are a lot more useful, because you can get some HUGE mountain ranges that would take millenia to incorporate within your cultural border.

Catapults suck, but if you have any production to spare (yeah right, heh), build as many as you can; the upgrade to artillery is terrifyingly effective.

	10-06-2002 03:30									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I asked Firaxis if they are going to address the issue of ridiculous espionage costs and they just said we can change it in the editor.
Grr!

	10-06-2002 04:46									#11
	Got spare money?

Unless something is really unbalanced, Firaxis will not change a default value that can be changed in the editor. They like the way the game plays.

	10-06-2002 05:09									#12
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Well, I agree with m_m_x except cannons.

	10-06-2002 12:22									#13
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider I asked Firaxis if they are going to address the issue of ridiculous espionage costs and they just said we can change it in the editor. Grr!

Well, assuming that you can, why is that a problem?



As for the list of things to be tweaked:

-colonies : Definitely something I don't use at all.

-fortresses : I sometimes find fortresses useful. And their use will increase in multiplayer.

-costal fortresses : No upkeep, takes shots at enemy ships. Reduced need for a navy to protect nearby coastal waters (hate having to build navies). Maybe it should give bombard units inside an increased range, and lethal bombard, even when lethal bombard is off.

-Scout : Hardly use expansionist civs, but extensively use scouts in the case that I do use an expansionist.

-Explorer : Fast, treats terrain as road. Can pillage terrain improvements. Even if they come too late to "explore" as such, they still have this use.

-catapult : I agree that until the artillery, bombardment units are somewhat useless.

-Privateer : Agreed again. Maybe if a system to upgrade the stats of existing units were to be implemented,
I might use them later into the game.

-Helicopter : Agreed. Don't know how it could be more useful.

-Stealth Fighter : Again, agreed.

-Cruise Missile : Yet another one I agree with.

-Steal World Map : Definitely an unused option. I usually find it cheaper to just buy their maps legit.

-Expose Enemy Spy : If the AI used spies, this would help. But it doesn't, so it won't help.

-Steal Plans : I use these before an invasion against an even enemy, so that I can pick out the best city with which I begin my campaign against them. Especially if they are overseas, and need a good beach head.

	10-06-2002 15:52									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

The fact that you (m_m_x) don't use the above strategies/units/whatever dosen't necessarily render them useless. Someone else might use completely diffrent strategies and could find them usefull.

Besides, a game where only the best units and strategies are available would be quite dull.

	10-06-2002 17:30									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by mwaf The fact that you (m_m_x) don't use the above strategies/units/whatever dosen't necessarily render them useless. Someone else might use completely diffrent strategies and could find them usefull. Besides, a game where only the best units and strategies are available would be quite dull.

maybe the topic was to selfish but i just wanted to share my thoghts with members here ,u can agree or disagree with me.and if someone else find this things useful, he can share his strategies.

	10-06-2002 18:11									#16
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Okay a simple one, catapults.

They are useless on attack (really). On defense though, they are great (in their era, of course). Put a couple in an important city and it will knock those hit points off, blunting the attack.

	10-06-2002 21:19									#17
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Colonies would be more useful if more terrain were restricted from city building (particularly desert and tundra). This will be possible in the new editor, and I for one cannot wait. As for the other stuff:

-fortresses - agree.
-costal fortresses - agree.

units:
-Scout - agree.
-Explorer - agree.
-catapult - good for defense, or offense if six or so are grouped together.
-Privateer - agree.
-Cannon - same as catapult, only more so.
-Helicopter - agree.
-Stealth Fighter - agree.
-Cruise Missile - I modded the hell out of this and now wouldn't live without them.

Intelligence-
-Steal World Map - agree.
-Expose Enemy Spy - agree.
-Steal Plans - I've actually begun using this to help plan my attacks. It's nice to know exactly where everything is that you are up against.

	11-06-2002 19:39									#18
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I think out of city improvements, Coastal Fortresses and SAM Batteries are the most pointless (has anyone actually ever seen them work?)

Units:

-Scout - I like these - allows to get lots of goody huts early on, and locate resources early on - effective use of scouts can drastically affect the course of the game

-Explorer - these are useless, I never used them for pillaging, because I would rather built Cavalry than Explorers

-Armies - rarely use them most of the time, only if I get a leader and there no wonders to be built, and no wonders will be available in the next 10 turns, then I might create an army

-Catapults and Cannons - good for long sieges of enemy cities, if a number of them is used at a time

-Privateer - with its current stats it is not able to sink any enemy shipping, so I never build these in default games (in my current game I made them stronger, so maybe I will use them more)

-Helicopter - I hardly ever use the airdropping feature (although it did come in useful once when my offensive force failed to capture an enemy city, so I airdropped a few infantry units using helicopters). I find it useful that they can rebase to any city while carrying units - useful for reinforcing remote cities without airports. I modded Helicopters so that they carry 2 foot units and have 2 movements and now they are really useful!

-Stealth Fighter - never used it with default values, but now I modded it to give it a greater bombardment strength, so now it is much more useful. I laso increased bombardment of Stealth Bombers and Jet Fighters.

-Cruise Missiles - as soon as I got the game, I increased range to 6 and now I allowed nuclear subs to carry cruise missiles, so now they are extremely useful.

-AEGIS cruiser - I find that the default stats make it too weak to be of any use, so I modded it so that it is a good modern replacement for the battleship.

Out of intelligence mission I agree that exposing enemy spies and stealing world maps are pointless. I do like however stealing enemy plans when planning offensive operations.

	11-06-2002 23:47									#19
	Re: things i rarely use in "civ3" maybe change/modify needed in "ptw& Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by m_m_x terrain feature: -colonies -fortresses -costal fortresses units: -Scout -Explorer -catapult -Privateer -Cannon -Helicopter -Stealth Fighter -Cruise Missile Intelligence- -Steal World Map -Expose Enemy Spy -Steal Plans

hi ,

okay , you dont use them , but a lot of oter people do ,
it does not mean that you dont use them that they should be removed , however if you dont use them , why dont make some thing usefull out of it yourself , example , give the explorer a 2 defense value , and let him patrol outside areas , ...and so on , ..

have a nice day

	12-06-2002 00:37									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by LordAzreal Well, assuming that you can, why is that a problem?

th problem is that if everyone has an edited game, MP will be a radical change.

all players in a MP game will need the same bic. ideally, there should be a "standard" bic for everyone to use that makes everyone happy.

if you're used to your corruption levels, your policies on lethal bombardment, and you join a game with totally different settings, you'll be in a world you know nothign about.

perhaps there should be several "offical apolyton match" bic files?

	12-06-2002 00:52									#21
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX th problem is that if everyone has an edited game, MP will be a radical change. all players in a MP game will need the same bic. ideally, there should be a "standard" bic for everyone to use that makes everyone happy. if you're used to your corruption levels, your policies on lethal bombardment, and you join a game with totally different settings, you'll be in a world you know nothign about. perhaps there should be several "offical apolyton match" bic files?

hi ,

okay , that might work , but then again , we shall have so many , ....

maybe we should get a D-base , and one can look into it before he or she play's , and accept's it .

have a nice day