10-06-2002 03:25									#1
	Save File for All? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

should we share the save file with everyone?

	10-06-2002 03:29									#2
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Between the terms. It would be to mush save posting otherwise.

However, if big changes happen additional saves might be posted during terms. (Also depends a little on the term length I think)

	10-06-2002 03:30									#3
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about the mid-term option:

i put it there because i thought that it would be nie to allow the people to see what a previous regime has done in their term.

it would grant them access to information that they normally wouldnt see, ie the corruption rates in each city, etc.

	10-06-2002 03:30									#4
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well, i voted (for yes to all the people), but i might wanna change my mind

for the ministers/advisors, yes, definately. but now that I think about it more.. perhaps the voting group should only be allowed glimpses at how the nation is doing? After all, the public of a nation is never granted full priviledge to information.

	10-06-2002 03:32									#5
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well, the advisors would take screenshots of important information and share them with the people, but the SAV file would give them all the niformation they need.

	10-06-2002 04:15									#6
	Put an end to popups!

Always. I think it would be no fun (even if it is realistic) to not let people see it. Also, they can make more informed votes instead of being led arounsd by the ministers.

	10-06-2002 04:18									#7
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No, I don't think so.
Punkbass, screenshots don't lie! You can still see what's going on. Just have each minister posts a few screens of what he's up to, and, say, the president or someone can post screenshots of the map, battles, etc. I just don't like the idea of the file being out there for anyone and everyone to look at... who's to say that people won't look at it?

	10-06-2002 04:20									#8
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There is a lot that cannot be discerned from a screenshot. What's the problem with people looking at it?

	10-06-2002 04:20									#9
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ooh.. we should have a random draw.. and whoever is in government for the picked term would HAVE to be corrupt...

release doctored screenies.. do things against the wishes of the people, spend money uselessly... would be fun and a bit of the game we would all have to plan for/recover from.. ya know, for fun!

	10-06-2002 04:35									#10
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quote: Originally posted by punkbass2000 There is a lot that cannot be discerned from a screenshot. What's the problem with people looking at it?

What if someone who casually looks at the file in the editor somehow manages to find out the entire layout of the landmass, as well as the locations of all the other civs, then becomes a minister or president? Might that be a problem?

	10-06-2002 04:39									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

As a fascinated observer I think it would be cool to be able to watch your progress.

	10-06-2002 04:42									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Trip What if someone who casually looks at the file in the editor somehow manages to find out the entire layout of the landmass, as well as the locations of all the other civs, then becomes a minister or president? Might that be a problem?

Yeah. if someone looks at it in the editor. What if the president does that? We can't stop people from being corrupt, but I think we can trust people here. I've never encountered this problem.

	10-06-2002 04:45									#13
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You can trust elected people more than you can the regular populuce. That's why we in America have a representative democracy, and not a republic. If we think that the president or another advisor might look at the file, then we don't have to elect him.

	10-06-2002 04:48									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Trip You can trust elected people more than you can the regular populuce.

Um, I don't agree with this at all.

	10-06-2002 05:39									#15
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but it's fun to pretend. I don't think It should be available to anyone except the minsters. Giving it to the public, as I have already stated, will make the minister reports useless and the demo-game boring.

	10-06-2002 05:40									#16
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I disagree. The demogame is quite fun and the ministers have plenty to do already.

	10-06-2002 05:43									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I know the demo game is fun, but if you make changes to it such as making the save file available it would make it less fun.

	10-06-2002 05:44									#18
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I thought we should do this for the Civ2 Demo Game, but I think that it won't be necessary for Civ3.

	10-06-2002 05:46									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Space05us I know the demo game is fun, but if you make changes to it such as making the save file available it would make it less fun.

So, knowing what's happening in the game 'isn't fun'? I would suggest the opposite.

	10-06-2002 05:48									#20
	Increase Your PM Length

knowing evrything isn't fun, we learn things through the ministers

	10-06-2002 05:50									#21
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

If you prefer not to know, then don't download it. But don't prevent the rest of us from enjoying the game the way we want to.

	10-06-2002 05:53									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

And if someone happens to get elected and makes decisions based upon finding out what the map looks like, or someone ends up telling everyone else about info that we shouldn't know, then that's ruining my fun.

	10-06-2002 05:53									#23
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Having the game is a security risk, as someone would play ahead. We have too many people to avoid cheating like that.

	10-06-2002 05:58									#24
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Having the game is a security risk, as someone would play ahead. We have too many people to avoid cheating like that.

NOt true. There are tons of people who have played at CFC, and so far no one has played ahead. Besides, one person knowing would not alter the votes too much, unless they said they knew what was going to happen. Then we would get to see what a person a crucifyx looks like

	10-06-2002 05:58									#25
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And through this poll, the risk may be lowered.

	10-06-2002 07:07									#26
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between terms, and a punishment of banishment forever and maybe even 2-day banning from apolyton for anyone who plays ahead!

	10-06-2002 07:09									#27
	Tired of ads?

I agree with that sentence!

	10-06-2002 07:57									#28
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As much as I would love to have the save every time, I had to vote No.

Think about it - anyone could download the save and ruin it for everyone. All here MAY be trustworthy, but just think of how many newbies might come in and wreck things without learning the rules (we get ppl asking about the rules all the time in the Civ2 game), and can we really take the risk that someone from this site might not themselves deliberately cause problems. You even get problems with some posters in the non-OT forums, and all it would take is one pissed off enough one with a few minutes to spare and a little misguided motivation.

Furthermore, what do the Ministers do if they don't inform ppl of what is in the game? This is a major part of the Civ2 game, that Ministers post screenshots and write summaries, concoct plans and poll on them to the citizenry. Once the polls are in, the Ministers might change their plan and resubmit it for approval. Then they inform the Prez of the ppl's wishes and play.

This way all a Minister would have to do is start their own discussion thread, listen to the ppl's ideas, put in a poll, and then give the results of both to the Prez. Where's the activity? What's the point in being a Minister if anyone can do it? Why should we even have elections if that's the case? They would be merely a lame popularity contest.

And for all those (however many there are) who DON'T have Civ3 but want to be involved. If we allow the save to go to all, either the Ministers need to post screenshots and explain things for them, or we are essentially restricting participation to a limited number of people.

	10-06-2002 08:26									#29
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt As much as I would love to have the save every time, I had to vote No. Think about it - anyone could download the save and ruin it for everyone. All here MAY be trustworthy, but just think of how many newbies might come in and wreck things without learning the rules (we get ppl asking about the rules all the time in the Civ2 game), and can we really take the risk that someone from this site might not themselves deliberately cause problems. You even get problems with some posters in the non-OT forums, and all it would take is one pissed off enough one with a few minutes to spare and a little misguided motivation. Furthermore, what do the Ministers do if they don't inform ppl of what is in the game? This is a major part of the Civ2 game, that Ministers post screenshots and write summaries, concoct plans and poll on them to the citizenry. Once the polls are in, the Ministers might change their plan and resubmit it for approval. Then they inform the Prez of the ppl's wishes and play. This way all a Minister would have to do is start their own discussion thread, listen to the ppl's ideas, put in a poll, and then give the results of both to the Prez. Where's the activity? What's the point in being a Minister if anyone can do it? Why should we even have elections if that's the case? They would be merely a lame popularity contest. And for all those (however many there are) who DON'T have Civ3 but want to be involved. If we allow the save to go to all, either the Ministers need to post screenshots and explain things for them, or we are essentially restricting participation to a limited number of people.

Very well put, that's my argument in a nutshell.

	10-06-2002 15:26									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Unbelievable that people even think of not distrubuting the sav files. It is a game, guys. Give everyone the opportunity to view its progress. Besides, I do not see at all why ministers and presidents are more trustworthy than other people (perhaps in real life it is even the opposite? ). Furthermore GOTM games, PBEM games etc. they all give the opportunity to play false. Does that mean we do not play them anymore. No, of course not. So, why should it be different for this game?