10-06-2002 09:26									#1
	How should we decide the winner of the difficulty and barbarian polls? Put an end to popups!

To average or not to average, that is the question?

Mean means giving a number (chieftain=1, warlord=2, etc) and averagng hte results.

Median means taking the votes in order and fining the middle one.
Example: Currently:
Chieftain=1
Warlord=2
Regent=9
Monarch=11
Emperor=5
Deity=11
Total=39
The middle of 39 is the 20th vote. The first monarch vote counts as the 13th vote, because there are 12 votes for earlier levels. Therefore monarch has the 13th-23rd votes, which includes the 20th, so monarch is the median.

	10-06-2002 09:36									#2
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I disagree with that system (as I've said ) mainly due to the fact that the middle options nearly always win. I will re-post my example of why I fear this is a bad choice.

Averaging the votes would be more like having 5 different canidates for a political office; 1 on the far left, 1 somewhat left, 1 in the middle, 1 somewhat right, and 1 far right. If you average up the votes for all of them, and whereever the most lies (nearly always the middle) wins. That's not the best way to do things, IMO. Why should the middle (or in some cases, median rather) canidate be the one that wins, even though it didn't get the most votes?

	10-06-2002 10:37									#3
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I say we play on emperor as it is the one right inbetween the two winners.

	10-06-2002 12:13									#4
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I think what Trip says is true. However, I still think they shall be weighted in some way, bau maybe put in a slightly higher weight for that an option has the most votes. (To avoid the everything goes to the middle trend we can see.)

	10-06-2002 15:40									#5
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I agree with Trip but I do not see an alternative. I have been thinking about a revote between the two options that have the most votes but the expected result would probably be ...... Monarch ... unless people completely change their minds. Perhaps in other cases we could go for a more subtle solution. In this particulare case I think we will end up with Monarchy no matter what we do.

Trip: do you have a better alternative?

	10-06-2002 16:24									#6
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I agree with Space05us.

	10-06-2002 16:58									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Space05us I say we play on emperor as it is the one right inbetween the two winners.

But that suits the minority who voted for it!

Simplicity: the one with most votes wins. That is how I believed the poll to be decided when I voted, and no doubt many others did too. Perhaps even a repoll with the two or three top options would be less unfair? Else my vote (in a majority category) counts for naught.

	10-06-2002 17:34									#8
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt But that suits the minority who voted for it! Simplicity: the one with most votes wins. That is how I believed the poll to be decided when I voted, and no doubt many others did too. Perhaps even a repoll with the two or three top options would be less unfair? Else my vote (in a majority category) counts for naught.

I would have to agree here.

You can't reconstruct the rules of the poll... you vote on something, and whatever has the most votes wins. Why should it be any different from usual?

Even the slight-weighting of going for Emperor I would support, however that's not how the poll should be conducted. Winner takes all. If Monarch and Diety tie, then make another poll. But don't start fudging the rules like this... :

The 'weighting' system I also disagree with. If things are slightly weighted, then things will get naturally shoved to either high-Monarch, or low-Emperor. Why should that be the case either? I'm sorry if people see me as brash, but I'm adamant on the issue that things should remain consistant for each poll. The most votes should win.

	10-06-2002 18:05									#9
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt But that suits the minority who voted for it! Simplicity: the one with most votes wins. That is how I believed the poll to be decided when I voted, and no doubt many others did too. Perhaps even a repoll with the two or three top options would be less unfair? Else my vote (in a majority category) counts for naught.

Yeah, we simply just need a repoll between those two close up, and then see what happens, who gets the most voters...

	10-06-2002 18:08									#10
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quote: Originally posted by ADG Yeah, we simply just need a repoll between those two close up, and then see what happens, who gets the most voters...

The problem is that if Monarch and Diety win, then everyone will flock to Monarch and it will easily win. If a new poll is created between Monarch and Emperor, the supporters of both Emperor and Diety will go to that one, and it will most likely win, due to the fact that it provides a sense of difficulty, without the extreme feel of Diety. A poll between Diety and Monarch will be a joke.

	12-06-2002 03:17									#11
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I think Gramphos' idea is good, because it takes into account the wishes of everyone, not of the only minority who voted for the winner.
Currently, deity only has 13 votes, and I suppose most other voters don't want the extreme feel of deity. If deity made it by one or 2 votes, it will heavily frustrate everyone else.
Gramphos' calculation is the best (or rather the least bad) way then.

	12-06-2002 03:19									#12
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Hold a new poll between the tieing options.

	12-06-2002 03:20									#13
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Averaging any of these has the effect of establishing a compromise between two sides, which is good. It ends up causing the least overall displeasure.

	12-06-2002 03:24									#14
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repoll if it's close.
different solution but for same reasons as spiffor mentioned.

	12-06-2002 03:25									#15
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Nah compromise is something that pisses everyone off and satisfies no one

	12-06-2002 03:27									#16
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Democracy is supposed to bring the greatest good to the greatest number; in other words, compromise.

	12-06-2002 22:38									#17
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I think this poll has been rigged by splitting the two averaging options LOL.

17 people want the results to be averaged, and only 16 want the highest vote count to win. So I think we should add the votes of the two "averaging" options toegether, and if they have more than the "highest vote" option, then we should use the averaging option that has the most votes between the two.

Oh my god, I think I am gonna lose my mind lol, if what I said makes no sense, don't feel bad, I could'nt understand it either

	12-06-2002 22:50									#18
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Timeline, don't worry, I don't understand it either Some translation would be nice...or maybe that's because I'm

	12-06-2002 23:07									#19
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Ok.......I will try my best but no promises. Here it goes:


These are our current poll options:

Mean 10 29.41%
Median 7 20.59%

- These two are essentailly the same thing, the people here want some kind of averaging to take place, although they dissagree on how this should be done.


No averaging, whoever gets the most votes 16 47.06%

- These don't want any averaging, they just want the one with highest votes to win.

now, from this we see that 50% want some kind of averaging (although they are divided as to what kind), and 47% don't want averaging.

I suggest that if more want averaging than those that don't, we declare the averaging group has won:

Mean
Median

In order to decide which one we use, we go for the one with the most votes.


Is that any better?

	12-06-2002 23:27									#20
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Can we stop trying to mess with how the polls are done? I thought that was the point of this thread?

	12-06-2002 23:30									#21
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Timeline : I agree with you. Overall, I think we should make it a rule that "no" blocks and "yes" blocks should be added. Otherwise, it will be very easy to rig a poll, by giving several "yes" options, and only one "no".

	12-06-2002 23:31									#22
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I have to admit that 'yes' or 'no' polls are superior, but we should stop trying to mess with the way things are going. Start () another poll if you think things here are being conducted unfairly.

	12-06-2002 23:47									#23
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Just showing that it is easy to rig a poll as Spiffer mentioned.

quote: Can we stop trying to mess with how the polls are done? I thought that was the point of this thread?

Yup, that's why it is so funny.

quote: I have to admit that 'yes' or 'no' polls are superior, but we should stop trying to mess with the way things are going. Start () another poll if you think things here are being conducted unfairly.

I'll pass thanks, twenty polls going at once is more than enough for me.

	12-06-2002 23:49									#24
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20? Please, there's got to be at least 40 by now.

	12-06-2002 23:53									#25
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yeah its a regular click fest

	12-06-2002 23:56									#26
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Just counted em, there's 20 on the first page and 34 altogether

	12-06-2002 23:57									#27
	Put an end to popups!

Let's average the averaging votes: 8.5

	14-06-2002 20:53									#28
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I posted a new thread about this and a couple of other polls here

	15-06-2002 00:41									#29
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The one with most votes must win.