11-06-2002 03:50									#1
	Damn US Police State Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Grrr, I'm really frustrated with my country, or at least the East Coast part of my country. (although I'm sure other places arent any better) Too many laws, too many regulations, too many people telling you not to do things and giving you tickets.

My story: My weekend started out rather boringly. So on Sunday I decided to go for a drive. I drove east to check out "DelMarVa" which is the penninsula east of the Chesapeake Bay in which Delaware is on. I drove around and it was pretty cool, I went to check out some of the beaches there, Bethany Beach, Ocean City, and Rehobeth Beach. At Bethany Beach I got a parking ticket because my meter expired 3 minutes before I got back. grrrr. I happened to get to Ocean City at the start of "senior week" so lots of fine ass drunk chicks who wouldn't talk to me. I hung out at Ocean City that night, just strolling the boardwalk, taking in the..uh..scenery...

I got back to my car and drove up the road out of Ocean City (because it was really noisy, the whole city is one big Frat House) I found a quiet neighborhood to park my car and sleep for the night. I was woken up at 6:30 by the police. grrr. Apparently sleeping in your car is illegal and he gave me a $50 ticket, I could have got a room in a motel for that much!

The cop was a bastard too (as most are) and demanded my social security card. This isn't a card that I thought people carried around with them, I don't have mine, and the cop got mad. Telling me that he didn't know who I was otherwise (I don't see the problem with that) he said he could put me in jail for 3-4 hours just because I didn't have my card. What a load of crap.

At Rehobath I see that it is illegal to: sleep on the benches, dig holes, run, have dogs, have bikes, throw objects (frisbees, footballs, etc), no changing in the bathrooms (where the hell are you supposed to change?). These rules are at the other beaches too. Its amazing they let you go in the water at all. What a load of crap.

As with every run-in with the police (i've had several) I become keenly aware of how many things are banned and illegal. There are many things. I feel suffocated, so many things I just want to do are somehow illegal. It seems like the only permitted activities cost money. Since camping, and even sleeping in (or parking) your car is illegal the only possible way the government allows you to sleep is if you pay a hotel a ridiculous amount of money to use a bed for a night.

I just want to scream, there is so many f_cking restrictions out there I feel like I am living in China or something. I'm sure many of the Chinese don't feel they are oppressed, they just know that there are many things that are against the law "for their own good" and they respect and abide by these laws. This isn't too different from how it works in the West. We don't feel oppressed, but there are just laws on everything. People are generally complacent and go along. Well I'm not complacent, and I f-cking hate this sh-t.

I'm just rambling now. But what makes this all even worse, is not that there is an oppressive government, like China, but this is a democratically elected oppressive government, and the majority of people support all these f-cking laws and restrictions. That is the most frustrating thing of all. How can freedom win at the polls when people don't support it? Even if an armed revolution were an option, it wouldn't work because people wouldn't support it. People like their over regulated lives, and I ****ing can't stand it.

I'm gonna move to Montana, build a shack and get away from all these stupid laws and regulations.


"Sign, sign, everywhere a sign, breaking up the scenery, blowing my mind, do this don't do that, can't you read the sign?"

	11-06-2002 03:58									#2
	Suffering from ads?

Going to be a dental floss tycoon?

He can't ask for your s.s. card.

	11-06-2002 04:00									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

You should join me in the Free State Project, a plan for 20,000 libertarians to move to one state with a small population, a native culture responsive to liberty, a good job market, and a coast (or border with another country). It might take awhile to get the required number of people, but just imagine... Wouldn't it be so cool if it worked. It's a lot better than the idea I heard about forming a new country. I think Montana is actually one of the states under consideration. Along with Wyoming, Idaho, New Hampshire, Alaska... I think that's all... Good idea, huh?

	11-06-2002 04:02									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

He's not supposed to, but he did. Cops have a lot of discretionary authority. You don't do things they way they want. and suddenly you're distubing the peace or some such.

	11-06-2002 04:03									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

So you're all going to move to a state and force the people who ive there to impliment your ideas? That's not very nice of you.

	11-06-2002 04:06									#6
	Got spare money?

welcome to George Orwell's 1984...in 2002.

	11-06-2002 04:08									#7
	Got spare money?

yea, i've heard the idea, (and my vote is for NH, their license plate says it all) but it hasn't caught on so far, and I'm more interested in somehow waking up the rest of the country and getting them to support liberty too. My Montana comment was just a bitter gripe, I'm too much of an activist to just leave others with their problems, I need to help them see the right way.

And if we did get a free state set up, we'd still have to worry about lots of federal restrictions, and they are growing all the time. My pick for a free country would be Liberia, cool name, fairly english speaking, and with a government so plagued by civil strife it'd be easy to take over. It also was set up by the US as a place for freed slaves to go, it would serve nicely as a place for freed citizens to go now. Hell the US Gov't may even support our effort if we could promise stability, prosperity and a good ally in the region. But anyways, I'm not moving to Africa, I'm gonna stay here and ***** about the facist laws I have to deal with here.

	11-06-2002 04:10									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Edit - Nevermind....

	11-06-2002 04:10									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

That's one reason why I moved to Tennessee Ozzy. I used to live in Los Angeles and I was ready to kill someone. Here in rural Tennessee everything is legal. We can even pass on the double line (but only one car at a time). Get out of hell while you still have an ounce of sanity.

By the way, I used to live in a van and I was hasseled constantly until I learned to be more sneaky. The trick is to have no windows and pretend that you are not in there. I would hear the police radios at about 3 or 4 in the morning and the cops beating on the van but I would ignore them until they went away. Once though they started to hitch the van to a tow truck so I thought I should get up...

	11-06-2002 04:20									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara He's not supposed to, but he did. Cops have a lot of discretionary authority. You don't do things they way they want. and suddenly you're distubing the peace or some such.

It has a lot to do with your attitude. I've had no problems with Cops. I say no sir, yes sir... treat them with respect (they are only doing the job we pay them to do), and I don't get hasseled. I talk my way out of most tickets, and even the ones I still get, I do deserve.

Even when I was a long haired college student, it was amazing what a little respect would get you...

	11-06-2002 04:23									#11
	Put an end to popups!

Every single freaken run in with the cops I have been very respectful and compliant. It just gets me screwed over. I've been arrested before, and I find out from others, that had I tried to run I wouldn't have been in any more trouble than I was. I play it nice and they still screw me over. I freaken hate cops with a passion.

	11-06-2002 04:27									#12
	Tired of ads?

Ausweis! Propuska! Cedula!

	11-06-2002 04:32									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Ming It has a lot to do with your attitude. I've had no problems with Cops. I say no sir, yes sir...

I've seen what happens to folks who mess with cops, which is why it's always yessir nosir with me as well, except once, when my friend and I were walking down the street and not doin' nothing wrong at all. Suddenly six cops were all around us and going through our wallets and questioning us. I was quite pissed and I wasn't as respectful as I could have been. I still have no idea what that was about.

	11-06-2002 04:33									#14
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP I play it nice and they still screw me over. I freaken hate cops with a passion.

I'm bettin' that even though you think you're playin' it nice, your body language is saying you hate them.

	11-06-2002 04:44									#15
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I'm bettin' that even though you think you're playin' it nice, your body language is saying you hate them.

It is tough to be nice and chipper when a Pig wakes you up at 6:30 in the morning.

	11-06-2002 04:47									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Sinple, don't get caught! If you do take it like a man. Which, it seems, you have.

Next time, change in your car and sleep in the bathroom!

	11-06-2002 04:49									#17
	Got spare money?

quote: Even when I was a long haired college student, it was amazing what a little respect would get you...

Exactly. Authority isn't something to be dreaded or feared.

It's something to be manipulated.

	11-06-2002 05:00									#18
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Starchild Exactly. Authority isn't something to be dreaded or feared. It's something to be manipulated.

The police shouldn't have that much discretion anyways. It gives them way too much power. Since damn near everything is illegal, then its entirely up to the cop to decide whether he is going to bust you for doing something. So if he is having a bad day you are screwed, or if you happen to be black or young, you are screwed.

Who honestly obeys the law to the letter? Who doesn't at least 5 over the speed limit? Hell the entire highway could be going 60 in a 55, and you could get pulled over for breaking the law.

Cops have too much power, we shouldn't be manipulating or groveling for authority, we should be fighting it.

	11-06-2002 05:06									#19
	Put an end to popups!

Man, I went to Ocean City last year for senior week and got arrested. All I was doing was smoking ass loads of weed in my hotel room.

The cops were kind of nice, but one was a ***** in that he kept messing with me while I was high. They made me give them my shizzle, then hand over the pipes, then they asked if I had anything else, I said, "Pipe cleaners." This cop freaked out and started acting as though possesion of pipe cleaners was a felony or something. I was high and I started getting really scared, but then they were nice. They even complemented me on the bongs I made out of two liter soda bottles.

But yeah, the Delmarva penninsula sucks ass. I'm never going back.

	11-06-2002 05:09									#20
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Also I was as respectful and cooperative as all hell, and they still threw me in jail for the night. It's not like I was going to go on a stoned rampage and start hacking people to pieces with an axe or something. Why should I have been jailed if I wasn't a threat to anybody? The drunks in senior week are the ones who screw everything up and the cops just give them citations. I was minding my own business and giving massive amounts of money to local eateries.

	11-06-2002 05:12									#21
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP Cops have too much power, we shouldn't be manipulating or groveling for authority, we should be fighting it.

Hmmmm... and he wonders why he has so many problems with them

Put yourself in their shoes for a change. Low paid government servants... Any of their next actions could lead to a dangerous situation. When they pull somebody over for speeding, for all they know, the person could be armed and dangerous and ready to kill them. Think of all the crimes against humanity they have had to see... rape victims, rotting corpses, bleeding victims... you name it...
It's no surprise that the have an attitude sometimes.

Again... I show them the respect they deserve, and usually get treated fairly in return. They are only doing their jobs.

Now, if you want to complain... complain about the idiots that pass the laws that the cops have to enforce

	11-06-2002 05:18									#22
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I have a tip for you. Ming said it and i'm gonna say it too. Treat them with respect. They're doing their job (badly or not), so they like to see someone who is nice to them for once.. be too nice if you have to. Bend over if you have to. That way you're gonna get out of it, and strike back later . Who gives a damn about selfrespect, just do what you have to do. It's not about right and wrong.
I was pulled over few weeks ago for speeding, not to mention everyone else was doing it too, and few cars actually went by me at the time when they pulled me. So, i played yes sir no sir, and asked am i going to get a ticket for going the same speed everyone else was doing.. so he lost his marbles and let me go. If i had been aggressive etc, he would of given it to me. Fight the power, but do it in a way that it has some effect. Otherwise you're just fooling yourself and the cause.

Oh and if you get nervous, scared etc when confronting officers (some people do, even if they're clean) don't show it. It gives the bastard the feel of power .

	11-06-2002 05:23									#23
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Look, I don't know what you guys do. I'm a notorious speeder and my parking habits would shame Madonna, but I never had a problem with the cops back when I used to live in the States. They stop you, you smile, nod really good, say "Yes, Officer!" a lot and treat them as human beings. And you get off every time - almost. Still got an occasional speeding ticket now and then, but I really deserved it, too.

Anyway, my favourite memory is being stopped by a patrol after doing something like a hundered and I hand this cop my international license and tell him - in my very best Swedish accent - that I thought that was legal because I must have miscalculated the speed in miles back to metric... and the guy scratches his head, chews me out a bit, and lets me off the hook.

Probably went back to his partner and said something bout "Stupid furriner" too. Those were the days.

Your cops are nice, Yankee boys. Cherish them, or we'll send you some Eurocom ones to teach you the true power of the state.

Last edited by moomin on 11-06-2002 at 15:10

	11-06-2002 05:23									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

OzzyKP:

Why are you ranting at the Feds? Insofar as I can tell, all your "problems" were brought about by local and, maybe, state cops.

Comparing the US to China in this case is somewhat laughable. Rant or not, it doesn't make much sense. For starters, you might have simply "disappeared" in China or had an unfortunate "accident" instead of getting a ticket and told to go on your way.

Gatekeeper

	11-06-2002 05:27									#25
	Put an end to popups!

Yeah, i agree with moominparatrooper, your cops are nice! They can actually let you go. Here if you're getting stopped etc it's 97% chance you're going to jail, or ticket. And if you say anything it's 'shut your face' back to you and if you know what's best for you, you obey .

	11-06-2002 05:29									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I feel for you man...... go to a US province, like the Virgin Islands or Puerto Rico, less rules and regulations there.

	11-06-2002 05:33									#27
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I agree with him (Ozzy) in that there too many laws. It seems the modern way of passing laws is politicians looking in the papers over an issue du jour, becoming outraged, and saying "there ought to be a law". I think this effects people the most who have already been stigmatized, like drug users (or mideast immigrants for that matter). The public gets whipped up into such a froth that politicos can pretty much sneak through whatever they like. It's not until much later that society questions the true ramifications. Anyway, my .02.

Dave

	11-06-2002 05:46									#28
	Got spare money?

I have no clue what you guys are doing over on the eastern shore but it must be something incredibly stupid (like smoking an ass load of weed in your when your supposed to smoke it in someone else's room ) Ocean City is a fun time if you know how to handle yourself.

	11-06-2002 05:59									#29
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

You guys don't register the fact that I WAS being nice. I wasn't giving him lip or anything, I complied politely with everything he asked. He demanded my social security card, I told him I didn't have it, he threatened me with jail, I offered to just tell him my number, he asked how he could trust me, I said if it matches with my driver's license then it should be fine. I tried to help him out as much as I could, but he didn't return the favor. He could have just told me to move along, but no, he gave me a 50 dollar ticket and threatened me with jail. I WAS nice.

And I'm glad to hear that our cops are better than Europe, at least there is still some legitimacy to "the land of the free" even on the East Coast. But damn we have a long way to go.

Another point I have, and the reason I intend to challenge this ticket, is that there was no postings anywhere about this restriction. I checked carefully before I parked, I saw a sign that said "permit required 9 am to 4 pm" Since I planned on leaving before 9 am I figured things would be alright for me. I guess if I was awake it would be alright, but because I nodded off I'm suddenly a criminal.

	11-06-2002 06:03									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

You people you should say this when the officer asks:

Officer: Your eyes are red, have you been drinking?

And you say: Your eyes are glazed, have you been eating donuts?

A joke I know... that would not be advisable to say unless you want to spend a night in jail.