11-06-2002 23:05									#1
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Do resources deplete in your territory even if no road connects them.

next question how exactly do mines built by workers effect the city's income i.e. I looked at a terrain square it produced one gold. I check the city yes the worker in the city working that sqare produced one commerce (now is that commerce from the gold or what) so i built a mine and looked at the city again and no change no more gold or commerce was comming in than before the mine
note: the square was dead next to the city with road and mine?

2# building mines outside the cities boundries do they have any immediate value?

3# if i build a mine on a gold deposite what does this do withing a cities boundries?

thank you

	12-06-2002 00:29									#2
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A city benefits from the worked tiles, improved or unimproved, within its borders.

Irrigation increases food output.
Mines increase shield output, not gold.
Roads increase commerce production.
Rails double the benefit of a tile improvement.

When you get commerce, you can allocate it among gold, happiness, and science. I think the game starts with these at 0%, 50%, and 50%, respectively.

Choice of government also affects production. I'll leave it to someone else to provide details. And correct anything I may have misstated.

	12-06-2002 00:40									#3
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quote: Originally posted by IRON_BRIGADE Do resources deplete in your territory even if no road connects them.

No, resources don't start disappearing until they're connected by a road.

quote: next question how exactly do mines built by workers effect the city's income i.e. I looked at a terrain square it produced one gold. I check the city yes the worker in the city working that sqare produced one commerce (now is that commerce from the gold or what) so i built a mine and looked at the city again and no change no more gold or commerce was comming in than before the mine note: the square was dead next to the city with road and mine?

As was mentioned, mines don't produce income, roads do. Mines only produce shields. Squares that are next to a river will produce extra income.

quote: 2# building mines outside the cities boundries do they have any immediate value?

No, in fact they have no value at all. Only tiles that are within the city boundaries can be used by a city. The only exception is the Strategic/Luxury resources. These only have to be connected by a road and be within your cultural boundaries. If they fall outside, you can use a Worker to build a colony on top of one. And you will need to build a road to the colony.

quote: 3# if i build a mine on a gold deposite what does this do withing a cities boundries?

It will give you more shields. If you want the income from it, you have to build a road.

	12-06-2002 00:43									#4
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AFAIK, strategic resources (iron, salpeter, oil, etc) only deplete if they have a road on them. This may extend to actually being connected to your trade network, don't know for sure. Other resources (luxury & bonus) never deplete.

Mines built by workers have no effect on commerce. Roads do. Build a road on that gold. The gold is a bonus resource, which grants more gold on that square, regardless of the presence of a road, similar to game, gows & wheat.

Building mines outside city boundries only has value if you are refering to withing its maximum 21 square production radii, but outside it's initial 9 square cultural border. Then eventually once the border expands, you will be able to work it. Building mines/irrigation outside of the 21 square production radii never has value. Improvements only have immediate value if you have a worker on them, which means they have to be within your current production area, you have to have a spare worker, and it has to be working that square.

Mining a gold deposit gives no special bonus. Road may increase the shields to more than the total that a road&gold as indivual numbers added should be, not sure.

	12-06-2002 01:31									#5
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I've seen resources deplete without any use...

	12-06-2002 01:32									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Fitz AFAIK, strategic resources (iron, salpeter, oil, etc) only deplete if they have a road on them. This may extend to actually being connected to your trade network, don't know for sure. Other resources (luxury & bonus) never deplete.

Strategic resources-- have not verified whether they disappear if connected to road or not. Supposed this was changed with 1.21 but have not verified.

Luxury-- depends on the resources. Some will be depleted, example is wine. It will take a long time but some wine will disappear by the end of the game.

	12-06-2002 01:39									#7
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quote: Originally posted by planetfall Luxury-- depends on the resources. Some will be depleted, example is wine. It will take a long time but some wine will disappear by the end of the game.

No, none of the luxury resources disappear, I just checked in the editor. At least they're not supposed to.

	12-06-2002 01:42									#8
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I'll double check. Maybe I made an editor change for wine. I don't remember what the defaults are. I do know in my games they do. I may have edited to '0', in which case the disappearance is random.

	12-06-2002 01:48									#9
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quote: Originally posted by planetfall I'll double check. Maybe I made an editor change for wine. I don't remember what the defaults are. I do know in my games they do. I may have edited to '0', in which case the disappearance is random.

No, if it's set at 0, there's no disappearance at all. An appearance ratio set at 0 is random, not the other way around.

	12-06-2002 01:53									#10
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You're right. I think it is set between 600 and 800 for disappearance and 0 for appearance. But it has been so long I looked at this I can't recall either my settings or the default settings.

	12-06-2002 01:58									#11
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The default settings for Luxuries are both 0.

	12-06-2002 02:01									#12
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How do strategic resources appear? If I cut down all of my jungles, am I eliminating my chance of getting rubber?

	12-06-2002 02:07									#13
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quote: Originally posted by SofaKing How do strategic resources appear? If I cut down all of my jungles, am I eliminating my chance of getting rubber?

No.

	12-06-2002 02:12									#14
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quote: Originally posted by SofaKing How do strategic resources appear? If I cut down all of my jungles, am I eliminating my chance of getting rubber?

All the resources are placed on the map at the very beginning, when the map is created. So chopping down the jungle won't make any difference. The only affect that altering the terrain will will have occurs when the resource disappears, and pops up somewhere else. In the case of Rubber though, it never disappears, so there's no problem with getting rid of jungles.

	12-06-2002 02:15									#15
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I love deforestation. IIRC all the forest terrain resources can exist on their cleared counterparts.

	13-06-2002 19:26									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Willem No, none of the luxury resources disappear, I just checked in the editor. At least they're not supposed to.

Ok verified. My bad. I changed the default settings in editor. Neither number is '0'. I increased both the appearance ratios for wine and the disappearance ratios. I am playing with about 600 for appearance and 800 for disappearance. Reasoning was alcohol {beer/wine/spirits} are made by almost every civ so it's appearance should be more frequent. But having lived in wine country, I know fields can go bad or winery sell out to developers and centuries old vines are cleared for housing profits. The winery doesn't stop making wine, just moves it operation. Thus added relocation of wine.

This was the only luxury I changed. Default again is to have low levels of alcohol and no disappearance. Guess civ doesn't know that some states are "dry states"