12-06-2002 19:07									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber Currently its my understanding that most prostitutes face deplorable lives and that many are forced into the lifestyle

How are they "forced" into the lifestyle? Granted, there may be a few who are kept in it by domineering, abusive pimps, but I would say for the vast majority it is a choice. A choice made by people with no self-respect IMO.

	12-06-2002 19:23									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove In Africa it is well accepted that prostitutes are a major vector for the AIDS epidemic. If you legalize it how often do you have to test the prostitutes in order to prevent minimize transmission? The usual means of testing look for antibody production. By the time the test is positive the subject has had the infection for weeks and have been contagious for much of that time. There are PCR tests that directly measure viral DNA, and therefore detect the disease earlier, but they are expensive. I predict that eventually some governmental entity in Nevada will be sued for licensing prostitution without providing adequate safeguards.

Ah, but then look at Senegal where prostitution is still illegal but there is a moratorium on prosecutions. There, the prostitutes get free (or almost free) condoms, regular checkups and ID cards that verify their compliance to potential clients. AIDS in Senegal is very much under control.

	12-06-2002 19:24									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Carver Ah, but then look at Senegal where prostitution is still illegal but there is a moratorium on prosecutions. There, the prostitutes get free (or almost free) condoms, regular checkups and ID cards that verify their compliance to potential clients. AIDS in Senegal is very much under control.

I've been in a senegalese brothel

	12-06-2002 19:26									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia How are they "forced" into the lifestyle? Granted, there may be a few who are kept in it by domineering, abusive pimps, but I would say for the vast majority it is a choice. A choice made by people with no self-respect IMO.

Many of the unwilling prostitues are immigrats in western Europe and the US. They are threatened with deportation, jail and physical abuse by their virtual owners. Being in a foreign land these women don't know their rights or how to escape.

That's one reason why it should be legalized, so these sex slave houses can be shut down.

	12-06-2002 19:28									#65
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon I've been in a senegalese brothel

I need a full report. How many women? Their "range" 1-10? How many CFA? Where, Dakar?

	12-06-2002 19:29									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Carver Many of the unwilling prostitues are immigrats in western Europe and the US. They are threatened with deportation, jail and physical abuse by their virtual owners. Being in a foreign land these women don't know their rights or how to escape.

Thats a better example of someone who is "forced" into prostitution, but I dont think the majority of prostitutes (in the US anyway) are in this predicament.

	12-06-2002 19:32									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Carver I need a full report. How many women? Their "range" 1-10? How many CFA? Where, Dakar?

Nope, Mbour - a town near Dakar. I was there in the daytime so didn't see it functioning as a brothel. Interesting pictures on the walls...

	12-06-2002 20:33									#68
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quote: Originally posted by schmoowithazing The women work out of brothels, must be health checked and blood tested every month and MUST practice safe sex at ALL times.

So who gets to test whether they're following the regulations?

	13-06-2002 10:41									#69
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In Melbourne, the owners of these establishments pay people to book services with the girls on a regular basis and they report back to the owner.
They report on the kind of service they receive, and whether the girls offer to bypass the condoms for an extra fee. If the girls offer not to practise safe sex, they are out the door immediately.
They also have doctor visit the brothel once a month ( or they can see their Doctor of choice at a clinic) to do all the tests. The girls must produce a clear medical certificate on the first of each month, or they are not allowed to work.
If the Vice squad come in to do a random check on the establishment and the girls are working without valid medical certificates, the manager of the shift faces a $20,000 fine and/or 2 years in jail. Personally I think it should fall on the owner and NOT the manager. Huge fines also are in place if alcohol or drugs are found on the premises.

	13-06-2002 12:20									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove I predict that eventually some governmental entity in Nevada will be sued for licensing prostitution without providing adequate safeguards.

The State of Nevada does not allow prostitution. Since it's a misdemeanor, it's legal or not at the county level. Only two semi-rural, low population counties, Storey (northwest of Las Vegas) and Washoe (southeast of Reno / Carson City) legalize it, with licensing restrictions and required medical exams, plus licenses for the whorehouses as well.

Suing anybody in Nevada is fairly tough, though - especially with respect to negligence, and especially when there's some fault attributable to the plaintiff. Nevada's a good Old West mentality, where if you do something and it blows up on you, it's your own damn fault.

	13-06-2002 12:22									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Roland There's a brothel about maybe 150 meters from my appartment, and I didn't even realize it until recently... (meaning that I saw the weird lighting above the door, not what you think )

Yeah, yeah - make your excuses. Late snowstorm in Vienna?

	13-06-2002 12:24									#72
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Don't pick on my poor reconaissance performance. And don't mention Vienna for Mozartballs' sake!

	13-06-2002 13:13									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Thats a better example of someone who is "forced" into prostitution, but I dont think the majority of prostitutes (in the US anyway) are in this predicament.

Ido not believe and have not seen ANY stats to support the idea that the MAJORITY of North American prostitutes are in the forced/abducted category but it does happen. I remember when I lived in Halifax the police broke a ring that was targetting young women at a runaway halfway-house. Some 17 year old runaway would go missing and the authorities figured she had "run away" again. Only when a bunch wnet missing did they figure out something was up.

Essentially the girl could be walking down the street and these guys would grab offer either booze and/or drugs. The girl would find herself on a street corner in an unfamiliar city 3 days later strung out and perhaps addicted to some drug with a guy telling her she better work " or else"


Its not the majority but it does happen .

	13-06-2002 13:29									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui So you are against it because of NIMBY? quote: for example to parade openly in residential neighborhoods that I would hope we are all against. Why? We all don't have YOUR morals. You should stop assuming that. I have no problem with prostitutes openly selling their services in residential neighborhoods. Of course, if it were legal, they'd probably confine it to the commerical sector, because they are selling something.

NO Imran-- it does not have to have anything at all to do with morals. I don't want people selling booze, cigarettes or encyclopedias on street corners in residential areas either. Thats why thyy are called residential- people can live there but don't have to face this stuff-- Even if it is a completely legal business there are reasons for zoning laws

Also street prostitutes can be mildly to very annoying to passersbys -- many are very persistent -- The prosittution laws in Canada are designed to criminalize the nuisance of the street trade-- It doesn't stop the trade though as it is quite flagrantly seen in a couple of places here.

I have to cross one of the "strolls" in the commercial district to get to my bus stop and what I have seen leads me to the other problem with street prostitution. Many of the girls are little more than children so I can't really embrace the consenting adults argument.


If an adult woman freely chooses to trade sex for money, that is her choice. . . I am actually in favor of legalizing and better regulating prostitution . . but I am troubled by how " free" the choice is for the street workers. I would bet that a sizeable minority are there under some duress either from some man or feeding an addiction