12-06-2002 16:15									#31
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quote: Originally posted by moominparatrooper LE, didn't you just state you kept out of political threads?

Yes. By definition, my presence causes this thread to be a non-political thread.

	12-06-2002 16:27									#32
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if we are talkign about political sctructure then i'm forced to say that our political system resembles the US one

2 strong dominant political parties that interchange a fully autonomous government wiht 0 cooperation and cohabitation.


if we are talking political ideology identity then maybe it's somewhere between france and italy

	12-06-2002 16:34									#33
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France of course. I'm interested by this political mouvment!

Beware ! not for kids !

	12-06-2002 16:45									#34
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quote: Originally posted by GP And I've visited a lot more countries than Kitty boy.

Patronizing the whorehouses of dozens of nations hardly gives you insight into their political situation.

Well, depending on who you happen to meet there...

	12-06-2002 16:46									#35
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Pop quiz, mofos: which of you voted for your home country?

	12-06-2002 16:51									#36
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I was temped to vote for the UK .. as I don't believe an elected president (who has no powers) is of any use .. and I think there is merit in having heads of state who are not elected (life time presidency) as the Queen, in that she has the experience of situations since 1950's .. good political advisor to the PM ..

however, in the end .. I opted for Australia .. for good reason, I think STV (Single Transfereable vote) is the best system for voting a stable government ..

I absolutly hate these so called democratic states where no party ever gains control, and Banana party holds sway.

	12-06-2002 16:59									#37
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Seriously I don't like the actual French politics. Having Monsieur Chirac as President of the Republic is mainly the cause.

I fear French policy toward Europa will become more isolationist to satisfy old french people scared by changement.

I fear that French policy toward "poor" country will be less genereous (no more proposition to cancel the debt of the poor countries).

Chirac is the avatar of the "bad" politic :
- Totaly dishonest (Lot of cases are linked to him).
- No honor.
- Ready to kill his mother to increase his personnal wealth and power.

*pouah *

	12-06-2002 17:03									#38
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i could talk for hours about greek politics and parties.

suffice to asy the most important kakos keimena (bad aspects)


pelatiakes sheseis
"costumer relations" with voters

you get my son a job in the public sector, i'll vote for you

that's how it started righte after the formation of the modern greek state.

we call it with a turkish name as a derogative: rousfeti.

has hurt political life for generations

	12-06-2002 17:13									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X Well, Cuba IS a dictatorship. No doubt about that... But there´s potential for a real socialist state in Cuba if they remove Castro from power and the US lifts it´s blockade.

If this would happen and if that would happen seems to be the favorite excuse that communists give when confronted with the true nature of the system. While you talk about ifs, the communists leaders live thier luxerious lives and laugh at the idealists that they depend upon. I'll be impressed with communism if a communist dictator actually delivers on the supposed ideals of the system. Until then I'll stay with what we have in the US however imperfect and sometimes down right unfair the system may be.

Australia seems ok but I sometimes wonder how they stomach paying tribute to the UK and the queen. Yeah I know it's symbolic, but have some freaking pride and become a republic. What does the UK do for you really except send the queen or some other royal to visit every once in a while.



edit: I would mention Canada, but they seem to like bowing to the queen and being apart of someone elses commonwelth. Except for the practical thinkers in the honorable provinces such as Alberta

	12-06-2002 17:17									#40
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Whatever, Cuba blockus is clear sign of US imperialism over continents of america.

Cuba didn't represent a danger for USA now. So what is the justification of this blocus ?

	12-06-2002 17:19									#41
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quote: the communists leaders live thier luxerious lives

Take a guess at the factor that separated the USSR's highest ranking politicians' income levels from the average for the last two decades of that benighted nation's history, Sprayber...

	12-06-2002 17:20									#42
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quote: Originally posted by ZoboZeWarrior Whatever, Cuba blockus is clear sign of US imperialism over continents of america. Cuba didn't represent a danger for USA now. So what is the justification of this blocus ?

The 3 million Cuban expats and families that live in Florida are enough of an excuse for any politician who has to win votes there...

	12-06-2002 17:23									#43
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quote: Originally posted by ZoboZeWarrior Whatever, Cuba blockus is clear sign of US imperialism over continents of america. Cuba didn't represent a danger for USA now. So what is the justification of this blocus ?

Cuba represents an annoying little insect that buzzes your head when you are trying to eat your meal. The justification is that we don't like Castro.

I'm not gonna defend it because I don't think it works. Castro sure isn't hurt by it because he sure isn't suffering with his people like a good revolutionary is supposed to.

Hey why doesn't France trade with them. France doesn't seem to have a problem with profiting from dictatorships.

	12-06-2002 17:26									#44
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As do USA ...

Business is business. Dictators love weapon and we are not bad for selling weapons.

You prefere of course Dictatorships you helped to get power, of course. More clean (hmmm) ... We take the others.

	12-06-2002 17:27									#45
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The EU doesn't give a flying **** about your little embargo anyway.

	12-06-2002 17:28									#46
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse quote: the communists leaders live thier luxerious lives Take a guess at the factor that separated the USSR's highest ranking politicians' income levels from the average for the last two decades of that benighted nation's history, Sprayber...

I'm sure they were standing in line with the rest of the people for bread KH. And I'm also sure while Ukrainians were starving during their five year plans they refrained from eating just because they wanted to be one with their comrades. But then again, they were more important for the society as a whole because they had to educate the poor peasant about the true nature of communism.

	12-06-2002 17:29									#47
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Sprayber,

why do you think having a queen means we have no pride .. the British people are very very proud , infact, too much so on occations.

I can understand people who believe there should be no head of state whatsoever .. but if were going to have one, I don't want an elected one .. the head of state is supposed to be politically unbiased, an elected one can never be .. there is no power in the position whatsoever .. so electing one seems pretty pointless.

Imagine, yet another boring, poinless election .. it would get a 5% turnout, and the most outragous candidate would win .. thanks to the student vote

As you say, it is purely symbolic .. the only power the queen has is that she meets the PM once a week for a chat .. she has the PM's ear .. and the PM can completely ignore it.

I am happy with that arrangement, it brings millions of tourists in per year to London .. They are worth more economically, than they are politically .. for me, personally, republics are dull .. but thats just my opinion.

	12-06-2002 17:29									#48
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quote: Castro sure isn't hurt by it because he sure isn't suffering with his people like a good revolutionary is supposed to

You seem so sure of the economic situation in Cuba, Sprayber, but here's a few facts: people don't starve on the streets there, there's free and compulsory education till the end of high school, free quality health care and free university education for those who qualify. That's a goddamn miracle when you look at countries like Brazil, Venezuela or Guatemala, none of whom have had their economies pounded on for 40 years by the biggest badasses on the block...

	12-06-2002 17:29									#49
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quote: Originally posted by ZoboZeWarrior You prefere of course Dictatorships you helped to get power, of course. More clean (hmmm) ... We take the others.

So you take the unclean ones

	12-06-2002 17:33									#50
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quote: I'm sure they were standing in line with the rest of the people for bread KH. And I'm also sure while Ukrainians were starving during their five year plans they refrained from eating just because they wanted to be one with their comrades. But then again, they were more important for the society as a whole because they had to educate the poor peasant about the true nature of communism

Really, Sprayber, I find it astounding that when I ask you about the USSR of 70-90 you reply with statements about the USSR of 33-38. Please explain to me why what you've just said has any bearing on my question to you.

	12-06-2002 17:35									#51
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I voted the Netherlands. LIBERALS!!

	12-06-2002 17:38									#52
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse quote: Castro sure isn't hurt by it because he sure isn't suffering with his people like a good revolutionary is supposed to

Where in my post did I say Cubans are starving?

And if the Cubans are so well off, why do we hear Castro get up on a stage and say that the evil Americans are hurting his beautiful and brave people by continuing the embargo? Either they are doing just fine are we are destroying their economy. Which is it? And another thing, if the rest of the world doesnt care about the US embargo why is it that they cant take up the slack? I was always concerned that our embargo gave Euro and Canadian companies a lead in trade, but apparently even after 30 some odd years Cuba still is in desparate need of American firms.


The Viceroy I was talking about Australia. She is your queen so I would expect you to hold her in some high regard. But why should the Australians who have modern state of their own.

	12-06-2002 17:39									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Asher So you would agree with Cuba's politics, like having the air force help him round up ducks when he goes duck hunting? (True story, I think a pilot or two died doing this too) I find it disturbing you not only support a dictatorship, but you rank it in third as your most ideal government...

I think KH brought a link here some time ago - UN ranking of quality of life, and Cuba did quite well.
Ducks, buffalos, etc - who cares....

	12-06-2002 17:41									#54
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 if we are talking political ideology identity then maybe it's somewhere between france and italy

greece = france with less money

or, alternatively

greece = poland with more money

	12-06-2002 17:41									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Roland The EU doesn't give a flying **** about your little embargo anyway.

ts,ts,ts Roland...

Please do try to be polite

	12-06-2002 17:43									#56
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we dont have as much money as france because we have to pay for al those damn weapons
And because of other reasons of state inefficiencey which also have to be fixed, but primeraly because of the first reason)


and OK, we have a lot of things in common with french politics but we are not 100% politically identical. we just have a LOT in common aboyut political ideology yes

	12-06-2002 17:44									#57
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse quote: I'm sure they were standing in line with the rest of the people for bread KH. And I'm also sure while Ukrainians were starving during their five year plans they refrained from eating just because they wanted to be one with their comrades. But then again, they were more important for the society as a whole because they had to educate the poor peasant about the true nature of communism Really, Sprayber, I find it astounding that when I ask you about the USSR of 70-90 you reply with statements about the USSR of 33-38. Please explain to me why what you've just said has any bearing on my question to you.

Oh I see, we have to keep things in the time frame you want. Talk outside the KH frame is prohibited.

Well in that case KH give me your stats on the over all income level of the Soviet Leader in the 70-90s and how they bravely stood in line with the rest of the citizens.

	12-06-2002 17:45									#58
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Many Australians still feel a strong connection to the UK, I wouldn't say those individuals were not proud of their country or acheivments .. (although I didn't realise you were refering to Australia only in my previous reply)

I have met Australians on both sides of the monarchy/republic debate .. A good friend of mine who I worked with in London felt that the British had betrayed them when they joined the common market, and that Australia needed to be politically self sufficiant.

Another friend of mine from Sydney felt 100% independant anyway, and liked the Queen as head of state because of historical ties .. She felt history should not be ignored, and saw no need to change the present arrangements .. She is just as proud to be Australian as I am British.

I think Australia voted against a republic on the basis that the republic drawn up for them to vote on was hopeless .. it wasn't a vote for Monarchy, rather a vote against an ill-conceived system.

	12-06-2002 17:45									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber I'm sure they were standing in line with the rest of the people for bread KH. And I'm also sure while Ukrainians were starving during their five year plans they refrained from eating just because they wanted to be one with their comrades.

well, with no chance to develop on the expense of colonies, someone had to be colonized internally. especially after being very selfish and starving the cities, the revenge was inevitable...
how many people starved because of the 18-nation intervention?

	12-06-2002 17:47									#60
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quote: And if the Cubans are so well off, why do we hear Castro get up on a stage and say that the evil Americans are hurting his beautiful and brave people by continuing the embargo? Either they are doing just fine are we are destroying their economy. Which is it? And another thing, if the rest of the world doesnt care about the US embargo why is it that they cant take up the slack? I was always concerned that our embargo gave Euro and Canadian companies a lead in trade, but apparently even after 30 some odd years Cuba still is in desparate need of American firms

By your and my standards, the Cubans are desperately poor. Just better off than 90% of their fellow Latin Americans.

The main things Cuba is lacking in are manufactured goods that have to be bought abroad. Perpetual softness of their currency makes it hard for them to buy foreign goods, and like most other places in Latin America they lack an extensive manufacturing sector. They depend on exports and tourism to get foreign currency in order to import.

For your information, Canadian and EU firms do brisk business in Cuba, and we're happy to continue. What I don't see is how you can deliberately blind yourself to the fact that lack of trade with US and US tourists is a severe (one could almost say crippling) handicap, due to US' size and proximity.