16-06-2002 07:57									#1
	Canadian Police demonstrate the proper handling of rabble Support Apolyton

Why do these people think that their cause justifies assaulting police personnel?

Why do they feel their views justify blocking the movements of democratically elected representatives by hostile mobs?

Why do they whine when they get treated like the rabble they are?

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2002/06/15/demo_halifax020615

	16-06-2002 08:35									#2
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Oh great. No wonder the CBC was so unsympathetic.

Some of the morons attacked media camera crews just before the police came forward and began arresting people.

Seems they objected to the camera crew filming the burning of an American flag. 'F*ck the corporate media' is the audible and repeated line while the cameraman is attacked by masked individuals.

Sorry, no link. Just watched footage on the news.

They should enjoy Alberta. Parts of a regular forces regiment have been deployed to guard the meeting site. Welcome international rabble.

	16-06-2002 08:55									#3
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The Cans burnt an American flag! I better get my forces ready for the invasion.

	16-06-2002 08:56									#4
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Why do these people think that their cause justifies assaulting police personnel?

"assualting police personnel"? These guys are suited up in riot gear, are trained and armed, ect... their sole purpose of being there is to stop the protestors... you make it sound like people are roaming the streets, looking for cops to beat up.

	16-06-2002 09:23									#5
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DA, I suspect they were not Canadians. G7 meeting.

Osweld, assault is assault. Or do you disagree with the rule of law? Do you think it only applies if you agree with the people attacked?

	16-06-2002 10:29									#6
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*yawns* people need to get used to the idea that the global economy is here to stay and adjust.

	16-06-2002 11:11									#7
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fight the power!
http://ontario.indymedia.org/front....6&group=webcast

	16-06-2002 11:25									#8
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So it doesn't matter that citizens (media camera operators) were being attacked by an unruly mob sporting the Palestinian flag?

Sorry. Didn't mention the flag bit before did I? Didn't think it was relevant until you posted that link.

	16-06-2002 12:23									#9
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quote: fight the power! http://ontario.indymedia.org/front....6&group=webcast

I sent them these comments:

quote: Anyone reading this article would think that you and your friends had been forced to be there demonstrating. Having a point to make is no reason to stop people from moving around nor to assault police, or to disobey the police. Quite apart from that, you are parading your biases proudly in the open here. You mention'the interests of the few against those of the many' at least twice, as well as claiming that your friends were arrested for 'wanting social justice'. For example, you state that 'the first order of business was to remove those pesky metal barricades'. There was no need for you to do that. As I said before, you are whinging about the consequences of your own actions. If you and the rest of you had not been there demonstrating, nothing would have gone wrong. Nobody would have been arrested and none of you would have got hurt.

	16-06-2002 14:08									#10
	Re: Canadian Police demonstrate the proper handling of rabble Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Why do these people think that their cause justifies assaulting police personnel? Why do they feel their views justify blocking the movements of democratically elected representatives by hostile mobs? Why do they whine when they get treated like the rabble they are? http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2002/06/15/demo_halifax020615

1) Attacking police isn´t a very good tactic IMO. Not if you´re not threatened or your civil rights are violated.

2) G8 is only indirectly democratically elected. They´re elected to govern their respective home-countries, not to divide the world between them for profit. They are a elite group of countries that act like imperialist capitalist countries have done since the Vienna congress in 1815.

quote: From Indymedia Ontario On the 26 of June the people of Canada and Québec will unite to express their dissent to the neo-liberal policies of the G8 countries. To make an impact our demonstrations ought to be free of any restraint. We are demonstrating our anger of the policies that are violent toward the people; they serve no other purpose but to take away our basic human rights, striping us of our dignity, and are responsible for the death of score of people throughout the world everyday. The liberal party of Canada, and to certain extent, the opposition parties in Ottawa, have conspired with businessmen and the big corporations to enslave us, to deliver us hands tied in our back to the new slave masters of the 21 century.

3) IMO It´s hard to judge what treatment they deserve if you´ve not been there. You wasn´t there either nye, but you choose to belive corporate media. They only show you what they want you to see, they are stooges of the capitalist system after all.

But since I know how stupid anarchists can act at times and how the repressive police tactics works in North America I can´t really say who´s guilty and who´s not.

	16-06-2002 14:13									#11
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I hope they use rubber bullets or at least the taser guns at the G8 summit here. For all this money we're spending I'd better see entertainment out of it.

	16-06-2002 14:19									#12
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Asher. I hope you´ll get unjustly teargassed sometime. See how entertaining you´ll find that...

	16-06-2002 14:21									#13
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Unjustly my ass, Kamrat.

They're already disrupting the city.

They keep demanding the right to CAMP in public parks.

The mayor has told them for 3 months no "NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT! GO FIND A CAMPGROUND OUTSIDE OF THE CITY! YOU CANNOT CAMP IN PUBLIC PARKS!". Every week they ask, "Can we camp in the public parks?!". ARGH!

And now they don't have any campsites booked. Guess where they're going to try to camp?

They're *******s. At least ORGANIZE your damn protests so you don't prevent us from using our damn parks like they're intended, the bastards.

Plus I'm not talking about using rubber bullets on an innocent crowd. I'm talking about when they get disruptive (which they will, they're attention starved little sh*ts), they should get what's coming to them.

	16-06-2002 14:32									#14
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Sorry Kamrat. I saw footage of cameramen being attacked by a bunch of dweebs. They seemed to be intent on saying f*ck anything that looks like the establishment. I have no sympathy.

The G7 (which BTW the meeting was for, not G8; Russia is joining later) is about managing our economies, not overturning Indian democracy to reimpose the Raj.

Yes. The anarchists seemed to have acted pretty stupid. In Canada it is a wee bit accepted to have a go at the police in minor ways. It has happened from time to time. Coming armed to a confrontation is ruled off side though. Going after anybody else? Not on your f*ckin life! No matter your cause.

	16-06-2002 14:49									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Unjustly my ass, Kamrat. They're already disrupting the city. They keep demanding the right to CAMP in public parks. The mayor has told them for 3 months no "NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT! GO FIND A CAMPGROUND OUTSIDE OF THE CITY! YOU CANNOT CAMP IN PUBLIC PARKS!". Every week they ask, "Can we camp in the public parks?!". ARGH! And now they don't have any campsites booked. Guess where they're going to try to camp? They're *******s. At least ORGANIZE your damn protests so you don't prevent us from using our damn parks like they're intended, the bastards. Plus I'm not talking about using rubber bullets on an innocent crowd. I'm talking about when they get disruptive (which they will, they're attention starved little sh*ts), they should get what's coming to them.

It was the "entertainment" part of your post I thought was a bit stupid. But there is other ways than rubber bullets to handle "attention starved little shits" you know

Of course this require at least a minimum of effort from the organizers to keep their own people on a tight leash, as well as a more open attitude from the city council (that does not include camping in public parks without permission though...) In Gothenburg cooperation between the city council and the organizers was extremly good. (Then the police ****ed it up, but that´s another story...)

Otherwise I agree with you that protests MUST be well organized, too bad anarchists loathe organization

	16-06-2002 14:55									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X It was the "entertainment" part of your post I thought was a bit stupid. But there is other ways than rubber bullets to handle "attention starved little shits" you know

Not for the millions of dollars we're putting into this.

It's very obvious what they plan to do. There have been little "training camps" going on just outside of the city limits for the upcoming summit. They're teaching you how to resist arrest, how to build your own gasmask, etc. It's really pathetic, and I really do hope that they get shot at with rubber bullets the second they try anything stupid. The military's out there so hopefully they have more training than regular police.

	16-06-2002 15:05									#17
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Sorry Kamrat. I saw footage of cameramen being attacked by a bunch of dweebs. They seemed to be intent on saying f*ck anything that looks like the establishment. I have no sympathy.

If they attacked the camera crew without provocation they don´t get any sympathy from me either. I don´t know if this was the case here. On the other hand I know how intrusive some camera crews can be, I was "harrassed" by a few in Gothenburg last year. I wasn´t doing anything illegal, just trying to guard the anti-Bush demonstration from police and provocateurs.

quote: The G7 (which BTW the meeting was for, not G8; Russia is joining later) is about managing our economies, not overturning Indian democracy to reimpose the Raj.

G7, G8, same ****... And what has the overturning of democracy (in India or elsewhere) to do with the struggle for a more just and fair economic system?

quote: Yes. The anarchists seemed to have acted pretty stupid. In Canada it is a wee bit accepted to have a go at the police in minor ways. It has happened from time to time. Coming armed to a confrontation is ruled off side though. Going after anybody else? Not on your f*ckin life! No matter your cause.

This is where anarchists and us marxists (of all varieties) differ. Anarchists seem to think that fighting with the police and wanton destruction and mayhem is a goal in itself. we think different. We belive that you have to think one step ahead. Even if you´re pissed off, throwing stones without considering the conseqences is stupid.

	16-06-2002 15:08									#18
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Kamrat X: You do realize nobody gives a sh*t about protests, right?

All people see is a bunch of communists and anarchists disrupting their drive home and city parks, that doesn't HELP the communist and anarchists causes.

You have to wonder just how dumb some people are sometimes.

	16-06-2002 15:12									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Not for the millions of dollars we're putting into this. It's very obvious what they plan to do. There have been little "training camps" going on just outside of the city limits for the upcoming summit. They're teaching you how to resist arrest, how to build your own gasmask, etc. It's really pathetic, and I really do hope that they get shot at with rubber bullets the second they try anything stupid. The military's out there so hopefully they have more training than regular police.

What I mean is that these people aren´t a very large group. They can´t possibly threaten the capitalist system with their actions (and the police and military exists to protect said system after all). Therefore I think rubber bullets are uncalled for. The government has the upper hand in this power-wise, they don´t have to resort to violence. It only creates more anger and frustration on the part of the anti-globalization movement, and acts a excuse for violent anarchists to behave the way they do.

	16-06-2002 15:17									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Kamrat X: You do realize nobody gives a sh*t about protests, right? All people see is a bunch of communists and anarchists disrupting their drive home and city parks, that doesn't HELP the communist and anarchists causes. You have to wonder just how dumb some people are sometimes.

IIRC Seattle opened the eyes of quite a few people and revived the anti-globalization movement, not to mention spur the founding of ATTAC.

	16-06-2002 15:19									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X IIRC Seattle opened the eyes of quite a few people and revived the anti-globalization movement, not to mention spur the founding of ATTAC.

How do you figure?
Seattle opened the eyes to people for how STUPID protestors tend to be, not for any causes they pretended to support.

There is no real anti-globalization movement outside of your own little protest groups. Sorry to burst your bubble.

I'd really like to know how you figure those protests did anything positive for your causes? They caused great damage to them from most people's eyes. Immature, uneducated, violent misfits don't like globalization...oh my god, globalization sucks!

	16-06-2002 15:24									#22
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Kamrat. I have to agree with Asher.

Violence is never going to win support.

Violence against people and property is only going to alienate people. Period. Remember Ghandi, and more importantly, why he won.

	16-06-2002 16:22									#23
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Ghandi was shot, India was partitioned and religious violence runs rampant in the former colony.

Gandhi didn't win.

	17-06-2002 03:44									#24
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He won independence for India. India today is one of the more important democracies in the world. One day soon, it will be one of the more important economies of the world. I think he won.

	17-06-2002 04:13									#25
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I always find the purpose of these protests to be a little confused and confusing. The main, and sometimes only, message that gets out is about the violence.

I find the story tolde from the protestors point of view to be revealing. In almost all these protests, the police erct a barricade and essentially say " go this far and no farther". For some reason the protestors can never respect a barricade and it almost invariably comes down. Then its the police's fault that they react to this
????

I live in Calgary and we are bracing for the G-8 summit nearby. There have been stories regarding the necessary security, traffic disruptions and as Asher pointed out, the attempt to camp in parks. I have also read of a number of businesses that will close for the duration as they expect damage from the protestors and the insurance companies have specifically excluded protest damage ( or made it prohibitively expensive).

There might be some messages put forth by the protestors that I might agree with if they were put forth rationally but when all I see is a rabble protesting globalization, the only thing I am thinking is that I hope there are a lot of police about to keep my family safe

	17-06-2002 04:28									#26
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Umm, what are they actually protesting about? What is being decided upon at this conference?

Are there any actual issues or just BS?

	17-06-2002 04:47									#27
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From the news clips I saw, it was a bunch of kids acting out their anti-establishment leanings.

From the link: Canada's Finance Minister, John Manley, told reporters that fighting poverty and offering aid to developing countries were the main topics discussed.

"If you want to live in a world of peace, we have to confront a world of need," he said.

Yup, those capitalists are sure oppressing the third world. Doesn't seem to matter what the topic of the meeting is. The twits show up for their show.

	17-06-2002 04:58									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Asher How do you figure? Seattle opened the eyes to people for how STUPID protestors tend to be, not for any causes they pretended to support.

Maybe it´s different in Canada. Everywhere else Seattle was a turning point in the struggle.

quote: There is no real anti-globalization movement outside of your own little protest groups. Sorry to burst your bubble.

NEWSFLASH: Kamrat X doesn´t actually think the anti-globalization movement has penetrated all levels of society. He says that they´re working on it though. He also refutes the allegation made by a canadian citizen that any bubbles have been burst.

quote: I'd really like to know how you figure those protests did anything positive for your causes? They caused great damage to them from most people's eyes. Immature, uneducated, violent misfits don't like globalization...oh my god, globalization sucks!

Even one as ignorant as you must be aware of the fact that the anti-globalization movement´s got a lot more going now then it did pre-Seattle. The violence hasn´t harmed us as much as you´d like to think...

	17-06-2002 05:02									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X Maybe it´s different in Canada. Everywhere else Seattle was a turning point in the struggle.

How do you figure?
Just where do you get that idea? It boggles my mind.

quote: Even one as ignorant as you must be aware of the fact that the anti-globalization movement´s got a lot more going now then it did pre-Seattle. The violence hasn´t harmed us as much as you´d like to think...

I'm the ignorant one, and you're the protestor protesting against globalization............riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

	17-06-2002 05:04									#30
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Yes, Seattle hurt the movement. Why? Because while Commies and Anarchists might have been rallied, others, such as people you might have had a chance to reach (the left leaning Democrat, the anti-NAFTA Republican) were TOTALLY put off by the violence and smashing of McDonald's. It was a dumb move and it has hurt greatly.

Most people (even on Liberal College Campuses) believe that the anti-globalization people are a bunch of kids with nothing better to do than break stuff. They have no respect.