16-06-2002 21:18									#1
	What should be required for a Declaration of War? Suffering from ads?

This one is for the constitution.

- Timeline

	16-06-2002 21:30									#2
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Group B, Option 2. Obviously 1 person can't decide to declare war or not, but I feel that some authority ought to recommend a declaration, followed by a 2/3 vote.

	16-06-2002 21:35									#3
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other: a civ existing on the map.

	16-06-2002 21:35									#4
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seriously, the foriegn minister should consult the military advisor, and they should set up a poll.

	16-06-2002 23:03									#5
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Anyone can agitate for war. That is a fact. People can and do spout off reasons all the time for driving the local tank division over the border and killing and burning as much as possible. However, if anyone were allowed to poll for a war, then we would get a lot of wasted threads which would clutter up the forum, as the people in our civ with common sense said 'no!'

Also, i would not want to see one individual with the powers of life and death over our empire. (ex. the rumor is that UberKruX was elected for his ever-so-slight :rollseyes: insanity). Therefore Group B has the only options left. 66% sounds good. I dont want to get into a 1914 situation where the people want an war that only some can see really would bring down the empire.

	17-06-2002 00:00									#6
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Group B, except that the War Minister should also be able to post such a poll.

	17-06-2002 01:06									#7
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Even though this is a minor issue. Why are people voting all of thier power away? Do you not trust yourself as a civ player? I agree with 67% but I think that anyone should be able to post it. Oh well, I'm in the minority.

	17-06-2002 03:32									#8
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The military advisor is obviously in on it, and has to present ready plans, but he can't be the one that gives the final decision.

The war minister should be able to only post a private petition to the Prez / FA

	17-06-2002 04:57									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov The military advisor is obviously in on it, and has to present ready plans, but he can't be the one that gives the final decision. The war minister should be able to only post a private petition to the Prez / FA

Agreed. We allllll know what UberKrux is up to, I think that's why Timeline didn't the include Minister of War.

	17-06-2002 06:44									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Agreed. We allllll know what UberKrux is up to, I think that's why Timeline didn't the include Minister of War.

	17-06-2002 07:06									#11
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Hehe.

Oh well, since it's being voted on the way it is, once it's adopted it will have to be officially amended.

	17-06-2002 07:22									#12
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bad poll: many needed options are missing. I say either SMC or foreign advisor (but not the prez) should be able to make a poll, 51% needed...

	17-06-2002 07:33									#13
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Why them and not the President? I'm not saying that just for my sake, but any subsequent Presidents.

	17-06-2002 11:18									#14
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Yes, why not the president? President is the head of the cabinet so he should be allowed to declare war, with a majority of 51%.

	17-06-2002 12:01									#15
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Unbelievable. All the talk of power to the people, and the people are readily handing over the power to initiate discussions of major import.

	17-06-2002 19:56									#16
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Actually, it *must* be 66.67% to be approved

	17-06-2002 21:02									#17
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I say 66% plus Prez and FM must agree.

	17-06-2002 23:00									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Tarquinius Yes, why not the president? President is the head of the cabinet so he should be allowed to declare war, with a majority of 51%.

I Agree...

I think that the president can do anything unless people dont want with more than 66% or all ministers disagree.

	17-06-2002 23:36									#19
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I voted for the prez to decide, cause he would lose the peoples support very soon, if he spontanously declears a war that he cannot handle!

Important note:
I think a poll in a constitutional clause, is an important matter! Therefore it should be made by (one or more of) the elected representatives... Other polls can be made by anyone?
Such a legislative poll, should also include the option:
- Invalidate this poll. So if there is a mistake/unclearity and it should not be amended this way, they people will have their say... before it's constitustionalized.



Historical note:
The elected repr. of a civ. did somtimes listen to the furious masses, and agitated for a war which they knew they could easily lose.
(Which also was the weakness of ancient Greek democracy, the demagogs. )

	18-06-2002 00:50									#20
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX other: a civ existing on the map.

I like this idea!

	18-06-2002 01:12									#21
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Group 2 option B. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with handing powers like this over to the powers that be who were voted in by us. If we don't like our pres asking us to constantly declare war, then vote for someone different. Do most modern demos declare war if some random Joe or Office Glen off the street puts up a poll? no. This is a demo, and we need to trust those we've voted in. If you can't trust them on their decisions, why vote them in?

Sorry, I ramble, and probably don't make sense right now. Excuse me.

	18-06-2002 01:50									#22
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i always like to give POWER TO THE PEOPLE but in this case, i think the president should have the ability to declare war. hey, we voted for him. anyway thats not going to win

	18-06-2002 02:31									#23
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WHAT ABOUT THE MILITARY ADVISOR??
I think that he should have a say.

	18-06-2002 02:44									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Trevman WHAT ABOUT THE MILITARY ADVISOR?? I think that he should have a say.

For sure!