18-06-2002 18:14									#31
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Firaxis said it's cheaper than Infantry, so, IMO, they better take Hidden Nationality off. Also, I don't think it's any fun to have 40 hidden units running around your land.

	18-06-2002 19:42									#32
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Well they're not hidden as in land-submarines so you dont get 40 unseen units running around. They look like privateers. I think the key to their use is to be able to stop their taking cities. As rhenric557 said, as they stand now you can obliterate a civ with them without declaring war. The unbalancing is that humans use them for that more than the AI. If you remove the ability to capture cities then they're a lot of fun.

	18-06-2002 20:11									#33
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I know, but that's powerful. And it wouldn't work in MP anyway. In MP, you'll be almost confident who has done it, while it will still be unbalancing vs. AI, even without city taking. I will just put loads of them on resources of the civ that I want to invade, see a part of their army die as my Guerillas are in Mountains, and then declare war on go with the real force.

	18-06-2002 20:44									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Solver I know, but that's powerful. And it wouldn't work in MP anyway. In MP, you'll be almost confident who has done it, while it will still be unbalancing vs. AI, even without city taking. I will just put loads of them on resources of the civ that I want to invade, see a part of their army die as my Guerillas are in Mountains, and then declare war on go with the real force.

Sure, but thats like real life. Imagine the possibilities for starting wars between human adversaries! You might think you know who's units they are, but will you be sure enough to start a war. Instead you might have a cold-war using your own units. It might be a good idea if there were a small possibility to unmask the units which would lead to culture and diplomatic problems.

	18-06-2002 21:25									#35
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In MP they would be interesting, insert them into the border region of to other civs, making them look like they aren't yours. And possibly igniting a war or atleast miss trust between the two players. Build them like an artillery unit only give them an attack of one so they can't be captured. sure It would be a pain to defend against them but you could always build in a way to counter them. give helicopters the ability to see invisible units. Which also works against subs. Of course they have to have a very large price tag or else they would be used to often. the point is to make it possible to run covert para-military operations in order to build tension in a region other than that which you are in. Of course your going to have a good idea who it is if your neighbor is using them on you or if it is some warmonger who keeps pushing you, but what if it is that peaceful civ that is always eager to trade, pay tribute, what ever? The thing is with playing human opponents you really won't know who to trust or when he is going to declare war. In MP they will need a new diplomatic agreement. The Non-Agression Pact. So you can't just bring in all your units under a Freedom of movement treaty and sneak attack, becuase that will be running rampant being that all the other players will not automatically distrust you becuase of it. With a non-agression pact you are basically saying I won't attack you if you don't attack me, and being forced to stick with it, but without having to go to war when the other is attacked. Anyway The Idea of a spec ops unit can work but it can't be built in the same fashion of a combat unit, it's ability to pillage and scout out enrmy units is enough to make it feesable.