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Immortal Wombat
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in perpetuity
Dec 2000
time: 05:20
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I didn't buy Civ3 when it came out. I never buy games new. The main reason for this is undoubtledly my extreme reluctantness to spend my own money. (My birthday was, alas, far distant enough that when I finaly arrived, I had had second thoughts anyway.) Thanks to Infogrames blindingly cunning sales strategy, Christmas was just a few days before the European release, so Civ3 did not find its way into the cosy nest beneath my Christmas Tree.
So after a period of pondering, and a wait for the price to go down, I wandered about on the forums to see what the public reaction was. Much like many other people, I'm sure.
And then I decided not to buy Civ3.
But wait, for now I have Civ3, and the price is still too high for me to pay (cheapskate! cheapskate!). This is how:
I came upon a rather unusual proposal being offered by a certain Mr Vincent Fandango (Names have been changed. Frequently). He was offering a chance to win a copy of Civ3 to anybody who posted a picture of themselves, with their right ear either removed, or bandaged.
And lo, I double clicked on my Paint Shop Pro icon, and emerged five minutes later with a godawful picture somewhat reminiscent of Pudsey Bear in an identity parade.
This I duly emailed to Vincent, who posted it along with the other contestant's picture and put the decision to a public vote. I point out at this juncture, that the forum in question is not Apolyton, is not a Civ site and is not very big, so for starters, the uptake in any competition is limited to 50 or so, and it seems that most didn't want Civ3.
Being the Civver that I am, despite the over-ruling penny-pinching factor, I was happy to win a game for free. And I did, by a margin of 3 votes.
And a week later, Civ3 dropped onto my doormat in a Jiffy bag. Complete with manual and case.
Hoorah!
I had previously promised that my first game of Civ3 would be on Deity level, and so it will be. I hope to get a royal arse-whipping.
Danke Vincent 
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Coracle
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People have been selling Civ 3 cheap on E-Bay for many months.
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FrantzX
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Heh, my first game of Civ III was on Regent, and that whupping I got was enough to make someone sit down and cry.
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ShredZ
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Got a link to the picture you made ?
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frostycreep
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Devon, England
May 2002
time: 05:20
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quote:
Originally posted by FrantzX
Heh, my first game of Civ III was on Regent, and that whupping I got was enough to make someone sit down and cry. |
You think thats bad! I go my first arse whupping on chieftain! I was so mentally scared I didnt play the game again for about a week! However when i did play it again I sorted it out and am now challenging the game at emporer level! Not bad for a civ nebie.
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hexagonian
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Gnawing on your mind...
Jun 1999
time: 23:20
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I'll have to let you know in a few weeks, as I will be on vacation starting tomorrow, so I won't be able to continue my current game until I get back. But I do like the game so far - Some initial thoughts though...
So far, I'd have to say that I think the military AI is better in civ3 over modded CTP2 - but not by a great deal. civ3's military AI is more focused, which is the main difference between the two.
 I also like the diplomacy model in civ3 over Modded CTP2, because it is a deeper and more exacting in the counterproposal aspect of the game. I like how I can finetune those proposals and counterproposals. Both games feature hair-trigger AIs who declare war at the drop of a hat.
I like civ3's strategy/luxury goods - a nice addition. Culture is cool if you get some cities with it - not so cool if your city defects.
The infrastructure AI in both games is good as far as I can tell - in civ3, advancement in tech seems to be very dependant on tech trading, something I am not overly crazy about. AI/AI tech trading in my Mod does not happen too much, yet the AI is very capable of maintaining a good tech lead over the human.
I greatly favor CTP2's PW over civ3's worker system, and also feel that the terrain improvements are more varied in CTP2 (Are there any sea tile improvements in civ3??? - none that I have seen yet)
Tech tree - Modded CTP2 wins hands down - much deeper... BTW, default CTP2 would also win this contest.
Same with governments - CTP2 wins because it offers a greater variety. In civ3 it seems that a player will use at most, 3 or 4 of the governments during the entire course of the game.
In combat, I haven't run into the spearman/tank element, mainly because I am still in the Medieval age. However, in the implementation of combat, CTP2 wins hands down due to stacked combat/movement (this is a preference though), and I can say with confidence that unusual combat results are not a part of Modded CTP2's format because of the use of HP and FP - something that has been documented to death in civ3.
Both have good graphics (civ3 is saved by Sn00py's terrain mod) but I like the CTP2 setup because the sprites are more clearly defined and larger, and the terrain is crisper - civ3's terrain blends too much.
I also prefer many of the interface issues in CTP2, from messages that I can read at any time in my turn (in civ3, they appear above a city and then disappear - where can I re-access them???), to the in-game info for improvements/wonders that appears in the menubox when selecting that item to build (in civ3 the only info in the city screen purchase area is for units - all other info has to be accessed in the Civotopia), to the larger buttons in CTP2 and the ability to single-click these buttons. I miss CTP2's button that allows a player to cycle through the units, rather than the use of the 'w' key to skip a unit.
civ3 offers a full city screen though...
Some of these are niggling issues, but some are also detracting (especially the messages).
Both games suffer from later game tedium, but true stacked movement/army groupings/army implementation - are all pluses for CTP2. This makes the actual game less of a micromanagement chore.
I'm not going to mention Moddability... 
Do I like civ3 more than Modded CTP2??? - probably not, but it is closer than I expected.
Last edited by hexagonian on 20-06-2002 at 00:30
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hexagonian
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Gnawing on your mind...
Jun 1999
time: 23:20
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Thanks Haupt.
Suprisingly, it is closer than I thought it would be - to me, if civ3 was more streamlined in some of the micromangement issues like combat and grouping units, and had a more friendly interface in terms of gaining info, I would put it on par with Modded CTP2 (for me at least). I admit to a certain bias for CTP2 because a good deal of my enjoyment in CTP2 has come from the fact that I was able to create my own setup, focusing on a particular time in history with the addition of my own units/wonders/buildings. - and also bump up the passive AI to a much higher level.
To me, the game is not only about the AI, although that is the most important thing - but it is also tied into the ease which one can accomplish even the simplest task, whether it is moving units or accessing info. If I have to struggle to get these things done, then the game becomes a chore rather than fun. I never doubted that the civ3 AI was good (for a computer opponent), and my first 2 (short) games bore that out.
I do realize that part of my opinion is based on the fact that I know CTP2 inside and out, so the info in CTP2 is second nature to me. But there are efficient ways to present the in-game info, and I feel that overall, CTP2 does it better.
At the same time, I do feel that there are also weaknesses in the CTP2 interface - how I wish I had a single city screen with all of the info a la civ2-civ3 (unlike the tab pages that the CTP2 screens have) - at the same time, I miss the tab system of CTP1 which allowed a player to quickly pick an item to build without calling up a menu to block out the map.
And to me, there seems to be a greater depth possible in CTP2. When I got my computer, I started playing Lords of the Realm II. A great game, but when I moved onto the civ games (specifically CTP1), I couldn't play LOTRII anymore because the game didn't have the tech progression depth that I saw in CTP1. The same thing with EUII - a great game but I wish it had more depth in the tech tree (rather than Naval level 12, Naval level 18 and so forth.) I just feel that civ3 could have deepened the tech tree and the governments, to give a greater feel of moving through history.
Both game have their strong features and their flaws. Still, the bottom line is usually preference issues (like above) on whether a player likes or dislikes a game.
I do like civ3 though.
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Soren Johnson Firaxis
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Hunt Valley, MD
May 2001
time: 00:20
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quote:
[SIZE=1] at the same time, I miss the tab system of CTP1 which allowed a player to quickly pick an item to build without calling up a menu to block out the map.
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try shift-right-clicking on cities to change production...
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King of Rasslin
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Soren, the AI in Civ 3 is absolutely outstanding. However, I quit CtP because it sucked so bad. I'm sorry, but the truth really hurts. The Public Works system was so HORRIBLE. It was too easy to pump up a single city and make all of the wonders in it. Ugh...
Ok, I haven't even played CtP2. The original ruined my joy for turn based games for months, which is a long time for a fan like me. Luckily, I got Alpha Centauri, and that saved my enjoyment for turn based games. 
As for Civ 3... The game isn't as good as Alpha Centauri. You can't call a global council on raising or reducing sea levels. You can't even make a pollution reducing pact in Civ 3. 
Civ 3's saving point is its excellent AI. It is very bright compared to the idiotic AI of Civ 2 and even the great Alpha Centauri. Soren, please make the AI for Alpha Centauri 2! That game will be the greatest turn based game ever, even if I have to wait a decade to see it!  Oh well, you can hope.
Soren, just stay away from CtP for the rest of your life. You just aren't wired the right way to program it. Sorry, but CtP was really, really bad. I haven't bothered with the 2nd one, and I don't plan to. The only redeeming factor in CtP was a different cost to maintain each unit. Seriously, marines should cost less to maintain than Modern Armor. Really, some unit balanced is called for in the modern era. Civ 3 will truly be great after more mods are made for it.
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centrifuge
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quote:
Originally posted by King of Rasslin
However, I quit CtP because it sucked so bad. |
I've played just about every civ-type game to death. (Civ, Civ2,SMAC, Civ3, CTP1 and CTP2) I used to be right there with you about CTP1, but I gave the CTP series another shot, with Modded CTP2. It makes a world of difference, and turns CTP2 into a really enjoyable game IMHO. King of Rasslin, just a suggestion, but give it a try before you continue such an assault.
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17-06-2002 03:02
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