17-06-2002 03:18									#1
	Should Saddam be toppled? Full PM-box? Change here!

The President has given the executive order for his removal. Senators have started to back his plan. Some even support military action.

Personaly, I think that he should go, but not yet...not until Pakistani/Indian relations are somewhat mended...the U.S. should keep its focus on preventing escalation.

	17-06-2002 03:20									#2
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Absolutely not. Not only is it not worth a single American life, but it is absolutely none of our business.

	17-06-2002 03:23									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I say go after him.... with everything. He is a threat. He could have nukes in five years... it is scary.

	17-06-2002 03:26									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Leave him. There are other dictators just as evil.

	17-06-2002 03:28									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

just where did my post go?

I guess I voted on the poll instead of submitting it.

	17-06-2002 03:31									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by red_jon Leave him. There are other dictators just as evil.

but not other dictators who are as anti US

if we did not want to topple him then we should never have entered desert storm, as it is right now we have to eliminate him

Jon Miller

	17-06-2002 04:27									#7
	Suffering from ads?

As it stands, the United States would be in violation of international law in any attempt to oust Saddam. We currently have no provocation. We have to let him make the first move.

	17-06-2002 04:42									#8
	Tired of ads?

I think we should think about the other Middle Eastern countries first. Just because he's anti-US doesn't give us a right to get him. If we obtain evidence that he plans (or has planned) attacks on the US or any other country regardless of affiliation, we should go in and kick his butt.

What he did to the Iraqi Kurds was despicable and for that he should be punished. But that's why they have the Crimes Against Humanity court.

But again, just because he's anti-US doesn't give us a right to get him...only if he has tangible evidence that he means to do harm against other countries should any one go in there.

	17-06-2002 05:01									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I would love to see Saddam gone, but I don't think the U.S. can afford to violate international law or piss off our allies around the world by just going in gung-ho. If we can't build a coalition to isolate him and remove him, then we're just going to have to thwart his evildoings by other means.

The-Ends-Justify-The-Means mentality we seem to have is wearing thin on pretty much the entire world. Without evidence and a legitimate casus belli, we should stay out.

	17-06-2002 05:23									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Kirnwaffen As it stands, the United States would be in violation of international law in any attempt to oust Saddam. We currently have no provocation. We have to let him make the first move.

International Law, International Shmaw. We shouldn't wait for him to build up his WMD arsenal or hinder US efforts in anyway. Especially if we don't actively go to war, our Allies will make no serious reaction if Saddam is removed.

	17-06-2002 05:28									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

He should have been toppled in 1991. Great call, Mr. Bush Sr.

But as of right now...It's not worth the effort, unless Saddam does something stupid.

	17-06-2002 05:46									#12
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by JCG He should have been toppled in 1991. Great call, Mr. Bush Sr.

Too bad the folks running the show back then are the same ones running the show now.

You can thank Mr. Powell for that boneheaded move.

	17-06-2002 06:18									#13
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Someone on the radio said the order specifically allows special forces to kill Saddam only in self defense.

Kinda begs the question...

	17-06-2002 06:25									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by JCG He should have been toppled in 1991. Great call, Mr. Bush Sr. But as of right now...It's not worth the effort, unless Saddam does something stupid.

Funny, Bush was following the UN mandate and made the 'popular' (among the Muslim nations) decision to not take Saddam down. Similar conduct today is demanded by the rest of the world and many Democrats in the US. Be consistent people.

	17-06-2002 08:07									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It doesn't help that Bush is constantly being fed information about possible nuclear attacks on the US. It not an easy position to be in. Do nothing, and you run the risk of seeing millions of your own people killed. Do something, and you end up in a war where no one supports you. Bein' President ain't a day at the ranch.

	17-06-2002 08:11									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Bust a cap in his ass!

	17-06-2002 08:24									#17
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

It is not the right of the US to topple Saddam. It is the right of the Iraq people to do that. They asked for our help and we let them get slaughtered. Now if we go in, they aren't going to lift a finger to help us.

	17-06-2002 09:04									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

che,

quote: It is not the right of the US to topple Saddam. It is the right of the Iraq people to do that. They asked for our help and we let them get slaughtered. Now if we go in, they aren't going to lift a finger to help us.

Wow, good point.

Now if only I had your support in the Milosevic thread, where I said the exact same thing!

	17-06-2002 09:10									#19
	Full PM-box? Change here!

If you could do it without resorting to assassination (a can of worms that it's not in the US' best interests to open) or an open conflict that would end up killing hundreds of thousands, then I'd want you to do it. Until that situation arises or Saddam becomes something more than a paper tiger, you should leave the whole mess alone.

	17-06-2002 09:13									#20
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Only if we support a decent alternative.

	17-06-2002 09:15									#21
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Ramo Only if we support a decent alternative.

Which of the current dissident groups would you support given the fact that an independent Kurdistan isn't a possibility?

	17-06-2002 09:17									#22
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Why is that a fact?

	17-06-2002 09:18									#23
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Ramo Why is that a fact?

Turkey and possibly Iran.

	17-06-2002 09:24									#24
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

First question is, what gives US the rights to topple the head of another nation? Does everybody who support the removal of Saddam also support the removal of the head of your country by means fair and foul?

Second question is, what next? What's going to hapen if Saddam goes down? The US supported Saddam in the eight year long Iraqi-Iran war to protect its interests in the Middle East.

	17-06-2002 09:30									#25
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Turkey

So our oppostion to terror should exclude the terror committed by those states that whore themselves to ours?

	17-06-2002 09:34									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Ramo So our oppostion to terror should exclude the terror committed by those states that whore themselves to ours?

When you answer my earlier question, I'll answer yours. Fair is fair.

	17-06-2002 09:55									#27
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: When you answer my earlier question, I'll answer yours. Fair is fair.

Given an Iraqi or Turkish Kurdistan, I would strongly oppose a removal of Saddam, unless in the former case, it's accompanied with measures such as no-fly zones to protect KLM autonomy.

Resistance in Iraq proper is impotent largely thanks to our not backing their revolution after the Gulf War.

	17-06-2002 10:10									#28
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

"First question is, what gives US the rights to topple the head of another nation?"

Where does Hussein derive his right to stay as head of Iraq?

	17-06-2002 13:11									#29
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Sooner or later you'll go there and you'll fight Iraq, with Saddam or one of his sons in the lead. At best, the "international law" whiners will postpone the campaign, thus increasing the number of American casualties and the risk to an attack on America herself.

	17-06-2002 13:20									#30
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Nice, Eli. You really are trying to get the US to dance for you, aren't you...