17-06-2002 12:45									#1
	The Colossus Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Most of the better players who have shared their strategy here have lately been pushing an early-military or REX strategy which leaves little room for early wonders. My own game has changed from a builder style to a more agressive stance, but I've managed to incorperate The Colossus into my plans in most games.

quote: The Colossus causes its city to produce one extra commerce in every square which produces at least one. The Colossus may only be built in a coastal city. Cost: 200 shields Culture per turn: 3 Made obsolete by: Flight

For a mere 200 shields, you get a wonder with great economic benefit, which lasts long into the industrial age. For most of the game, this wonder will generate 12 gold/turn, assuming a size 12 city. Especially in the early game, this is a massive boon to research and gold production.

The drawbacks are few, but must be noted. Generally speaking I will build the Colossus in my second city to ensure getting it. This means that I basicly lose a full city's worth of production for roughly 40 turns. This slows down city development to a varying extent (depending on the food production capabilities of your early empire). 200 shields is equivilent to 10 archers, which represent a huge army in the ancient age.

Thus, I see the Colossus as a bit of a gambit. If you are able to overcome the loss of a large army and a slowdown in city production, you may reap a huge reward in the later game. While the Colossus may not be for all players, I feel the skilled player can compensate for the erly cost. Whereas other players talk of reaching tech parity in the early middle ages, I find a combination of my own research and ancient era warfare allows me to often pass the AI long before that.

	17-06-2002 13:54									#2
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I like the Colossus so much I turned the Manhattan Project into the Internet - same effect as the Colossus.
Comes with computers.

I'll never build nukes without a Quick Response to a First Strike - something we asked for after Civ 2 came out but never got.

	17-06-2002 17:01									#3
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I agree, the Colossus is great. Only drawback is that it requires a costal city. Another intersting one, is the Great library. The AI almost never builds it before 700 BC even on Deity.

Coracle,
What is the "quick response after a first strike" ?

-

	17-06-2002 19:56									#4
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I think it means if you get nuked, you auto-retaiate, which, IMO, is a horrible idea, one that if incorporated, you should be able to turn off.

I

The internet wonder is an okay idea, but I find I rarely need any extra money by that point.

I'd rather have a stack of ICBMs.

Yeah, the Colossus can be very handy. It's usually second on my list of 'early wonders tlo have'
behind those insanely useful Pyramids. =)

	17-06-2002 21:37									#5
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I almost always build the Colossus.

I tend to play on island maps, so contact with other civs is later in the game.

	17-06-2002 23:13									#6
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I'm all about early war, but I also take a shot at the Colossus if I have a suitable place to build it. I often do.

-Arrian

	18-06-2002 00:28									#7
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The Colossus indeed rocks. I've become disenchanted with the ancient wonders - they all expire, some before they are of any use (Oracle?), they are tough to build and disrupt your budding infrastructure.

The only two I find worth getting anymoreare the Colossus and the Hanging Gardens, both of which last into the industrial age. Combine the Colossus with Copernicus' or Newton's (or both), with a nice river and some gold, and you'll never have to deal with war weariness, because you'll have a tech lead under a monarchy.

I definitely try for this one every game, in either my 1st, 2nd or 3rd city. But I try not to lose too much. Depending on which city builds it I'll do it after 3 settlers, two settlers, or one settler, respectively. That way I have five or six other cities to make my armies and libraries etc.

	19-06-2002 18:49									#8
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I had a stack of mounted warriors on the border of Rome last night when the pop up announced that Rome had built the Great Library. Heaven. I'd add the GL to the list of ancient wonders worth the effort, especially if we get confirmation that the AI does not build it quickly as indicatred in the comment above. (I've not had great luck getting it but I don't play civs with the right early tech for maximum effort on that front.)

	19-06-2002 20:39									#9
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The Great Library really only makes sense if you DON'T intend to warmonger. If you're gonna fight, throw everything you have into it (except, perhaps, a city working on the Colossus ) and beat tech out of the AI.

The main thing about the Colossus is the low shield cost (200) and it's longevity. That, and the fact that the AI will often ignore it. I built it last night in an Emperor game. True, I also built the Great Library (!) after a failed attempt at aggressive warmongering. I'm still getting my butt kicked, though.

Good point about the Hanging Gardens, Milo. I have occasionally built that too. Normally, however, I'm preparing to make a run at the medieval wonders.

-Arrian

	19-06-2002 21:50									#10
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The early economic benefit of the Great Library sure is nice. I've been trying lately to be more of a war monger than a builder and this means giving up a few early Wonders. I haven't built the Colossus in a couple of games now but I always go for the Great Library. It's nice to be able to turn the tech slider right down and let the AI do all of the research until Education for me. By the time it expires, I have well over 1000-1500 gold in the bank for upgrading units and rush building temples in my newly acquired territories.

	19-06-2002 22:18									#11
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LotC,

Very true. Consider, however, how much military might you could produce with the 400 shields it takes to build the Library. More might = easier conquest. Plus, if you're militaristic, fighting may well produce a great leader, which you can use to rush the Library if you really want to (though I would place more priority on a Forbidden Palace). There is more luck involved my way, to be sure, but the greater risk offers greater reward as well.

-Arrian

	19-06-2002 22:59									#12
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Obviously the usefulness of the Great library depends on whether or not you've contacted all of the other civs. I don't usually try for it anymore; I'd rather just build little libraries and then shoot for medieval wonders.

The Hanging Gardens I find to be rather useful - really almost as good as J.S. Bach's, and it's great to combine the two. I tend towards these rather than Sistine just because they give so much help to my little fledgling towns that don't have cathedrals yet. But it's only worth getting if you seriously beeline for Monarchy, which is hard because it's an expensive tech. Beelining for Monarchy usually means giving up 2 or 3 other techs. Also, the ai LOVES this one and will give you a lot of competition for it. If you don't go for it very quickly, you might as well just wait for Sistine or J.S. Bach's, which are only about 30/50 turns away.

Those two are nice, and I will take them if I have the shields to spare, but, to reiterate Blitzer's first sentiment, the Colossus is always a must.

	20-06-2002 06:17									#13
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Don't forget the 3 culture points a turn the Colossus provides. Very handy, particularly for a cultural victory.

	20-06-2002 08:11									#14
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One less city usable for churning out horsemen and swordsmen early on. However, it is well worth it to build the Colossus, as the economic bonus will allow greater military support, and make Republic a better option, even for warmongering.

	23-06-2002 23:45									#15
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For the ancient age I find that Colossus is the best,then the Hanging Gardens, then Pyramids, then the Great Library, then the Oracle, then the Great Wall. The great wall is the worst wonder of the entire game.