17-06-2002 18:39									#1
	army caused pillaging Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

imagine a nation invades another one and crosses the hostile landscape with it's armies. do all the tanks and cavalries drive or ride behind each other in a row and just leave one small thin line?
NO, usually they (especially when attacking) move or attack next to each other.

that's the reason why i think irrigiations on the tiles should automatically be pillaged when heavy units (e.g. wheeled and mounted units) cross enemy tiles.

or do you believe that hundreds of tanks can cross your farm and no harm is done?

what do you think?

	17-06-2002 18:53									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

are you also alking about friendly tanks?

in any case, i dont like the idea. realism != civ;

	17-06-2002 18:56									#3
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX are you also alking about friendly tanks? in any case, i dont like the idea. realism != civ;

no, friendly tanks will try to cross the land without destroying it.

ofcourse realism!=civ, but imho the more (realism==civ) the better...

	17-06-2002 20:12									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Hmmm, depends on how big a piece of land you think a single tile represents. Personally, i think the tile represents quite a large area of land and any damage inflicted by passing units would be minimal compared to the tile as a whole. Besides, tanks would use the roads because it's quicker (and yes, i know that's not the case in the game but slow movement in enemy territory represents something else).

Also, i believe your poll is biased as the top option is worded so that it can not be logically chosen.

	17-06-2002 20:20									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Phil_de_geezer Besides, tanks would use the roads because it's quicker (and yes, i know that's not the case in the game but slow movement in enemy territory represents something else).

i tried to explain it in my first post: when you're in enemy territory you expect to meet the foe any moment, so the tanks won't drive behind each other (the enemy otherwise would destroy one after the other) but next to each other.

at least when the troops attack the fields should get destroyed...

	17-06-2002 20:38									#6
	Re: army caused pillaging Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf imagine a nation invades another one and crosses the hostile landscape with it's armies. do all the tanks and cavalries drive or ride behind each other in a row and just leave one small thin line? NO, usually they (especially when attacking) move or attack next to each other. that's the reason why i think irrigiations on the tiles should automatically be pillaged when heavy units (e.g. wheeled and mounted units) cross enemy tiles. or do you believe that hundreds of tanks can cross your farm and no harm is done? what do you think?

Well when you consider that a 256 X 256 map, the largest possible, has a square that's roughly equivalent to 100 miles, I'd say no. Have you ever heard of a line of tanks travelling 100 miles abreast? They follow each other in a more or less single line, or at least in a tight group, not fanning out across the countryside. They'd really have to go out of their way to destroy farmland etc. as they passed.

	17-06-2002 20:46									#7
	Re: Re: army caused pillaging Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Willem Well when you consider that a 256 X 256 map, the largest possible, has a square that's roughly equivalent to 100 miles, I'd say no. Have you ever heard of a line of tanks travelling 100 miles abreast? They follow each other in a more or less single line, or at least in a tight group, not fanning out across the countryside. They'd really have to go out of their way to destroy farmland etc. as they passed.

that makes sense. on the other hand: have you every heard of a city with 10'000 square miles are (100x100 miles) and the diameter of 500 miles (5 tiles)? And the next town/city is at least 200 miles further away?

and you're talking about a world map, in a regional map (e.g. british isles) both measurements are more possible

As someone said before: realism != civ3, so i guess no real solution can be found (but it's still a lot of fun!)

	17-06-2002 21:08									#8
	Collateral damage Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It depends alot on what the army/tanks are doing... If they're just passing on sand roads to go from A to B, it's not as if they were passing onto crops or as if they were on a bitumed road... Damage of war, I guess, could be pictured. Like field beeing damaged when you tryed to hit an infantry.

All this is called COLLATERAL DAMAGE

	17-06-2002 21:17									#9
	Re: Re: Re: army caused pillaging Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf that makes sense. on the other hand: have you every heard of a city with 10'000 square miles are (100x100 miles) and the diameter of 500 miles (5 tiles)? And the next town/city is at least 200 miles further away? and you're talking about a world map, in a regional map (e.g. british isles) both measurements are more possible As someone said before: realism != civ3, so i guess no real solution can be found (but it's still a lot of fun!)

Well yes, if you start argueing realism, then nothing in the game makes sense. The point is though, that pillaging improvements requires extra effort. It generally doesn't occur just with troops passing through, since they're only concerned with getting from point A to point B. In order to pillage, they would have to slow down their advance to set fire to crops etc.

And yes, here in Canada we do have cities that are that far away from each other, with a hinterland that large. Not many mind you, but it happens.

	17-06-2002 22:10									#10
	Put an end to popups!

i do rember the french being able to grow crops after the germans invaded and took over. a tank or a number of them may destroy a harvest in a single field or a number of fields but there is a whole lot of farm land out there.. (ever looked out the window of an airplane?)

	17-06-2002 22:11									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

also, the germans had to go out of their way to destroy everything in russia when they invaded.. i'm sure it would have been easier if all it took was traveling through the land

	17-06-2002 22:17									#12
	Suffering from ads?

I might want to keep all those useful improvements! I might need them after I take this city and want to move on to the next!

	17-06-2002 22:18									#13
	Re: Re: Re: army caused pillaging Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf that makes sense. on the other hand: have you every heard of a city with 10'000 square miles are (100x100 miles) and the diameter of 500 miles (5 tiles)? And the next town/city is at least 200 miles further away? and you're talking about a world map, in a regional map (e.g. british isles) both measurements are more possible As someone said before: realism != civ3, so i guess no real solution can be found (but it's still a lot of fun!)

Which is why I tend to think of "cities" more as "provinces", with the named city being the capital of that province, and the worked tiles representing smaller cities / suburbia.

Of course, this tends to fall apart on water tiles, but hey...

	18-06-2002 00:47									#14
	Re: Re: Re: Re: army caused pillaging Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Of course, this tends to fall apart on water tiles, but hey...

Not really. Current international agreements gives every nation bordering on oceans territorial rights to that space for 200 miles from their coast. A bit of compromise is in order for ocean nations less than 200 miles apart however.

	18-06-2002 02:24									#15
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Jahi i do rember the french being able to grow crops after the germans invaded and took over. a tank or a number of them may destroy a harvest in a single field or a number of fields but there is a whole lot of farm land out there.. (ever looked out the window of an airplane?)

*smile* ... the french more or less surrendered without any real resistance

	18-06-2002 02:28									#16
	suffered a humiliating loss Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

ok, ok, ok, i've suffered a humiliating loss (see poll)

but what do you think of the idea that at least the attacked field could (customizable value) get damaged. so those who see the tiles as 10'000 square miles can set it to zero and others who see the tiles about the size of an army, an airport, a fortification, a city, etc. could set it somewhere near 100%

	18-06-2002 03:29									#17
	Get a bigger avatar today!

IMHO this would damage gameplay and fun beyond repair.

	18-06-2002 04:38									#18
	Re: suffered a humiliating loss Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf ok, ok, ok, i've suffered a humiliating loss (see poll) but what do you think of the idea that at least the attacked field could (customizable value) get damaged. so those who see the tiles as 10'000 square miles can set it to zero and others who see the tiles about the size of an army, an airport, a fortification, a city, etc. could set it somewhere near 100%

What's the point? There's already a Pillage command, why try and complicate things more than they have to be? I don't see any real value of your suggestion.

	18-06-2002 06:31									#19
	Full PM-box? Change here!

hehe, ok, so the french were over run and could not mount an effective defence.. then what about the japanese invasion of china? the crops still got planted and harvested