17-06-2002 18:45									#1
	CORRECTED latest Ministry of War plans Got spare money?

2x EDIT: Fixed poll - thank to the Almighty Ming. Everyone who voted - you need to vote again. Sorry. I'll try not to be so stupid again. :



Unit count:
EDIT: I DID try and put a unit count in here but the formatting sucked once it was in the post, so I cut it. Once my last exam is over I may take the time to redo it, if ppl want (DO you want?).

Also around

Diplomat (N of Bombay)
Riflemen and Dragoon fortified in Fortress ENE of Calcutta (Indian city)
1 Caravel E of Rome
1 Veteran Superclad E of new Castellon
4 Veteran Superclads and 1 Vet Caravel N of Babylon
1 Veteran Superclad, 2 caravel (1 Dragoons, 1 Riflemen in each) exploring near Carthage

Well, my exams are nearly over, and my much-mentioned bags of spare time this month are rapidly
approaching (rather ironically, since the nominations thread is already active ). It is about bloody time I came up with a warplan. For those sleeping the last week or so (like me), America, Rome and Egypt are history - our latest nemesis is India, who attacked us during the American and Egyptian campaign. Based on my own feelings and the current results for the polls by head of the Foreign Office Hydey on what to do with our neighbours - I present ideas towards preparing an attack on India, and contacting the Carthagininans whilst exploring the Carthage-infested, I mean inhabited, lands.

Expanding Our Cultural Heritage aka The Quest for (the rest of) Little India

India has 5 cities, one of which is not located yet. unless there is a surprise, the location for this
city is pretty well constrained by the locations of our cities. (see map 1) This map also shows the
position Hydey considers the most likely area for their final city.

At least two of these cities, Madras and Delhi, have Walls helping the (as a worst case) Musketeers
defend those cities. This would make the defense of each unit there =3 +50% Vet (?) + 200% Walls = a
possible 11 defense if we round up! Our max attack at the moment (on land) is Dragoons 5 + 50%
Vet = 7 rounded down. This is unacceptable. Thus, we must either eliminate the Walls (defense down to
5 rounded up, much better ) or await Cavalry and Cannons (attack = a possible 12) - or maybe both.
It is imperative we take Delhi ASAP so we can eliminate both their largest city and allow city bribery
by the highly trained Diplomatic Corps if a non-violent method is desired by the ppl.

I propose no offensive action against Indian cities at the moment due to our attack inadequacies. I suggest we continue building diplos in the three cities that are doing so at the moment (6 turns till all are completed at the same time). Some cities are building a second defensive Rifleman to fortify, and three are building a third. I think we should change these three, and once they are done with the second defender the other cities also, to build roughly half Dragoons, half Diplomats. Thus we will soon have several diplos and Cavalry (Tactics is about 2 turns away) with which proper plans can be made. Cannons shouldn't be necessary, as they are just slow, defenceless Cavalry for our purposes.

Investigating the Infestation of Carthage aka My, that's a Nasty Case you've Got There

Since Hydey's poll suggests we should not provoke Carthage overly until India and probably Babylon are notches on our belt, but that we need more information on the extent of the infection, my second plan
is to send our Navy to investigate.

Map 2 shows the units we have South of the Carthage-plagued continent. We have 4 Vet Superclads clustered near babylon, one on the SE tip of Carthage (next to a Trireme we must EXTERMINATE ), and a Caravel with the 'Clads near Babylon. Two further 'Clads are W of Babylon, near our city of Brandenburg. Another 'Clad is in Veii and two are healing in Cumae and Antium.

I propose 'Clad 1 kills the Trireme and continues N along the coast to investigate the black area. 'Clad 2 will do the same, on the W side of the landmass (it has been a while since we were there). 'Clad 3 will move to the island at the yellow arrow, to investigate the possibility of a city here (look - an unmanned Fortress! ). The other 'Clads you see can just wander around, check out the coast of India, attack that undiscovered city if it is a port, approach Babylon or whatever.

Finally, to the Caravels to the North of the main infestation, with a Rifleman and Dragoon in each. Here there is a city, Oea, just begging to be attacked (map 3). Keep in mind Carthage has the ability to build the awesome Phalanx, Archers, Elephants, Legions, and, um, that's about it. If we keep Caravel 1 hanging around until the Dragoon becomes a Cavalry, we can take that city in an instant, and defend with the Rifleman. Caravel 2 can continue East on its mission of exploration of that ominous black "Dragons be Here" type stuff.

Well, that's about it from me - remember to vote - just broad ideas to vote on here, since this is such a cop-out vague, do nothing at the moment type plan.

Poll options:

Poll A: India
1. my non-active India plan is fine until we have the forces built up or
2. you have a better idea (post it here or PM me)

Poll B: Carthage
1. My exploratory Carthage plan is fine
2. You have alternate thoughts

Poll C: Units to build
1. Half diplos, half Dragoons (soon to be Cavalry) - my idea
2. All diplos - we buy them out
3. All Cavalry
4. Something involving Cannons maybe? You tell me.


Minister of WAR, not peace.
MrWIA.

Last edited by MrWhereItsAt on 17-06-2002 at 18:50

	17-06-2002 18:47									#2
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Map 1

The Indian situation

Attachment: map 1.gif
This has been downloaded 78 time(s).

	17-06-2002 18:48									#3
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Map 2

Kill the Trireme and explore

Attachment: map 2.gif
This has been downloaded 77 time(s).

	17-06-2002 18:49									#4
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Map 3

Make contact and take Oea in the same turn!

Attachment: map 3.gif
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	17-06-2002 18:56									#5
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swift work...

build diplo's --> they become beautifull spies

Shade

	17-06-2002 23:17									#6
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We might want to wait attacking chartage untill we have a railroad from Rome to Girba so we dont have to sail all our units over but can just rail them.

	17-06-2002 23:53									#7
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All this waiting is utterly pointless. We are powerful - we destroyed three of six civilizations in a matter of turns. Our war machine is massive: we have 74 riflemen and more than 20 dragoons. Yet we aren't able to use this power because the Minister of War feels that the Indians *might* have musketeers? Ha!

I propose that we organize a massive assault on all of the remaining civilizations. Bringing them under our roof will not require great effort on our part.

First we should take India before they have a chance to construct anything more. Continue moving our troops to that continent and quickly order them to engage the weakling Indians while we have a window to do so. Use our diplomats to take any cities that do have Musketeers, and use what other troops we have to take the poorly defended cities.

Move our forces from the American/Egyptian continent towards Babylon, where we will quickly dominate their coastal cities - they do not yet have gunpowder, nor do they have any other major obstacles that could stop us. They should be a pushover.

In the meantime, with the ships we have near Rome, attack the Carthaginian continent. As the Minister of War points out, they have no units that can truly threaten us, so we should be able to crush them like ants. They have at least two colonies which should be our last priorities; the mainland is where their power lies, thus we should aim for it.

All this requires a massive mobilisation on our part, and we will have to wait for many of our units to repair. Once they are done, however, it will not take us long to reach our enemies doorstep. I feel the quicker we can take the world, the better!

Last edited by CannonFodder on 18-06-2002 at 04:37

	18-06-2002 02:40									#8
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quote: Originally posted by CannonFodder All this waiting is utterly pointless. We are powerful - we destroyed three of five civilizations in a matter of turns.

remind me not to vote for you when you run for trade-advisor

Shade

	18-06-2002 03:10									#9
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Carthaginian civilization is a waste of precious resources. We could turn those simple minded citizens of theirs into strong workers who will further our ability to liberate the indian territory.
I vote to hold fire on india for a few turns and bring Cartaginians everywhere undur our rule, Then with those resources we have gained (and the VET troops) we will be better equiped to deal with the indians.

	18-06-2002 04:38									#10
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LOL didn't notice that - fixed!

	18-06-2002 06:05									#11
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Map 2: Bizarrely, that Carth Trireme does not show up on my map. But I agree we should kill it at once, on general principles! And that Ironclad was headed W, so I agree with that too. Great minds think alike...

Map 3: The Trireme at the pole has been heading W and tipping huts; nothing is left to the E. So, I suggest a small change. Let it complete the polar exploration (only a few squares left) and then turn S toward Carthage.

	18-06-2002 06:18									#12
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I think the value of Diplomats for bribing or sabotaging cities is about over for this game. We need Spies for that now. The computer has been increasing the cost of bribing cities (Boston cost 1224 gold) steadily. Using Diplomats to destroy city-walls takes a lot of them, the walls always seem to come down last (which makes sense). It could take 5 or 6 Dips per city to get the walls destroyed.

Now, I'm not the most experienced player at the details of bribery costs. I just don't do that much bribery. Maybe the game calculates a new civ starting at a lower cost, or maybe the fact that Boston was the last American city was the reason the cost was so high. But it's an expensive way to go.

	18-06-2002 19:45									#13
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In all our planning about which enemy civs to attack next and who to leave alone for the moment (polls show us attacking India and leaving the Babs and Carths alone), it occurs to me that our wonderful Ironclad fleet has *nothing* to do! India has no coastal cities left.

Oh, they can explore the unknown seas, and patrol some coastlines, expose a few coastal huts for Caravels with units to go tip, but it really seems like a waste of massive firepower. Since it will probably take much of the next session to gather forces and transport them to the India front, I propose that we also position our Ironclad fleets to blockade the coastal cities of the Babs and Carths to pick off any enemy ships that dare wander out to establish overseas cities or conduct trade or even attempt to aid their allies (and they will all declare an alliance soon).

Then, next week, we can consider using the Ironclads to kill off the defenders in the coastal cities, forcing the Babs and Carths to move defenders from inland to defend the coastal cities. That should make the later ground assaults that much easier. We won't be taking the coastal cities, just keeping them defenseless and using up the enemies military assets (poor as they may be).

We can easily carry on a coastal war against the Babs and Carths while making a ground/Diplomat assualt against India. Just not this upcoming session, I guess.

	18-06-2002 22:28									#14
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear Map 3: The Trireme at the pole has been heading W and tipping huts; nothing is left to the E. So, I suggest a small change. Let it complete the polar exploration (only a few squares left) and then turn S toward Carthage.

As soon as I saw Map 3, I had the same idea : Caravel # III must first go west to clear the area for huts , then she may go elsewhere.

	18-06-2002 22:51									#15
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After reading this plan, I understand the delay for Indian assault : We need cavalry, even cannons to take Delhi first : if we have a lot of diplos, walls sabotage is a good way but may cost several units.
After Delhi conquest, we have to use bribing for walled cities and cavalry for the others.
I was one of those who did'nt think to wait after a total victory against Indians and Babs before turning our army against carthaginians.
The post of our President about our idle fleet confirms this idea : before conquest, we may "skim" cartaginians coasts with our super-ironclads : destroying the isolated units, emptying costal cities of their defenders, so the future campaign will be shorter.
Don't forget the great number of units in Carthagenian empire : 11 years of military service for citizens of 13 cities, there would be more than one hundred of units, even if they are phalanx or legion or settlers and trirems.

	18-06-2002 22:59									#16
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt ...take Oea in the same turn!

No : the fortress will be probably manned when we'll go nearer. If it is empty, OK for debarking ground troops, to test cartaginians defense.
Oea has propably many units, and a ground attack will destroy the city by decreasing population by each blow !

	19-06-2002 01:30									#17
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear Then, next week, we can consider using the Ironclads to kill off the defenders in the coastal cities, forcing the Babs and Carths to move defenders from inland to defend the coastal cities. That should make the later ground assaults that much easier. We won't be taking the coastal cities, just keeping them defenseless and using up the enemies military assets (poor as they may be). We can easily carry on a coastal war against the Babs and Carths while making a ground/Diplomat assualt against India. Just not this upcoming session, I guess.

We can send most our fleet to chartage emptying out city's, as AI runs out of them it will start buying them, this making bribing cheaper

I suggest we just bombard the coastline untill they run out of money to buy units or a palace.

Then send in a wave of Cavalry witch will take most city's, with their cap gone its easy to bribe the remaining city's the next turn