17-06-2002 19:05									#1
	final conflict: should postpone until spy planted? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Having trouble planting spies. Playing with 2 civs and we are about equal. In modern era and manhattan is coming up soon. Can't assume they won't build manhattan.

Question wait until spies are planted to start final conflict, or start final conflict without knowing the numbers and types of military units the AI's have?

In other words, does the risk of being surprised by more modern units and higher numbers than expected outweigh the risk of delay in refocusing AI's research.

	17-06-2002 19:10									#2
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My preference is to know exactly what am I going to fight against, and then watch the number, as the AI starts to use draft and such.

So, I'd say, plant a spy, evaluate their army, and attack immediately.

	17-06-2002 19:23									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Solver My preference is to know exactly what am I going to fight against, and then watch the number, as the AI starts to use draft and such. So, I'd say, plant a spy, evaluate their army, and attack immediately.

That was my gut feeling, but wasn't sure if correct. Persians are one move from planting an exploratory force and declaring war. I can postpone by flooding coastline with units. I have Un.Suff and they don't. So question is which is more valuable: good intelligence or hitting their republic with WW?

	17-06-2002 19:26									#4
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Why not two at the same time? As I say, switch to Communism, plant a spy (won't fail if you're Commie), and hit them the same turn, they will suffer.

Un. Suff. still can't stop weariness under Democracy.

	17-06-2002 19:43									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Why not two at the same time? As I say, switch to Communism, plant a spy (won't fail if you're Commie), and hit them the same turn, they will suffer. Un. Suff. still can't stop weariness under Democracy.

We all are running Republics. I thought Un.Suff did reduce WW under Demos, isn't that the idea behind it?

quote: Universal Suffrage Cost: 800 Culture: 4 Requires: Industrialization Expire: Never Militaristic Reduces war weariness in all your cities.

Won't there be 4 turns of anarchy in switching govt types?

	17-06-2002 20:28									#6
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We are going to wait until our spy is well entrenched before we launch the final conflict with Firaxis.

Stop the insanity Jeff, the flippin flip poof must go.

	17-06-2002 20:33									#7
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Un. Suff does reduce weariness, of course, but it's usually not enough.

If you're both Republics, you'll still get more weariness, for you initiate the war - there will be nothing for some time, but then they'll get really mad. Generally, defending causes much less unhappiness.

Jim, don't troll. This thread has nothing to do with culture.

	17-06-2002 20:45									#8
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Solver, don't try to police me, you are not a mod here. You insulted me in another thread just now. Why don't you knock that off?

	17-06-2002 20:46									#9
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Jtrick-- you hate flipping, duh! Flipping adds a suspense factor to the game to keep it from being boring. BTW its author was not Jeff. He just went alone with the concept. You have a reputation for bringing up the most negative aspects of the game, but where is the on topic comment?

Solver--Yeh, BUT I have more WW protection built in my civ: sistine, cathedrals galore {editor cathedral also helps WW}, courthouses
with reserve of police stations. {edited police stations to also reduce WW}. I can conduct long, long campaigns at 62-64% happiness. {currently at 95%}. AI has not build up infrastructure for 100 turn meat grinder wars. About 20-30 turns into a long war, WW nicely reduces AI unit generation capabilities. Either they self destruct with little depth or switch to communism.

The only part I can't figure out is how to successfully get AI to declare war. Guess is I don't wait until military is weak instead of average before tring to goad into war declarations. I can easily get the "furious", but since ignore option when they challenge "stupid" for putting troops in their territory doesn't exist without declaring war. I get tired of being challendged several turns in a row, end up declaring war.

	17-06-2002 20:51									#10
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Fail at planting a spy and the AI will likely declare war on you.

	17-06-2002 20:56									#11
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick Fail at planting a spy and the AI will likely declare war on you.

JTrick-- hey, that is more like it. On topic, reputation damage control is at work here!! There is hope for us all ;-).

Yeh, that works for militaristic civs when equal or lower in culture and military. What I can't figure out is when higher in score points and avg or strong military, how to get non military civs to declare war. Maybe just hoping they were stupid.

	17-06-2002 21:02									#12
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Actually, I have had non-militaristic civs with less military and less culture declare war when I have failed to plant a spy.

BTW, I could care less about my reputation. Its long been to far gone to worry about.

	17-06-2002 21:07									#13
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Maybe I don't fail planting spy enough times. I usually stop after 1-2 failures and then wait til next turn. I seem to have better spy planting success if wait a turn or skip a few turns before trying spy planting.

	17-06-2002 21:18									#14
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Hmm, I think that if a civ fears you it won't declare war if you fail to plant spy - dunno why you Jim encountered it.

Also Jim, I'm not insulting you, I'm *asking* you to think what and where are you posting. Thanks.

	17-06-2002 21:36									#15
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Could be the explanation. I am only civ with infantry. All of 1 unit, but other civs are "afraid" of infantry. I just failed planting spies in both civs and neither declared war.

	17-06-2002 22:45									#16
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I usually keep demanding tribute over and over until they are furious and then fail at planting spy if you already have a spy try and uncover there spy 9 times out of ten you get caught.