21-06-2002 13:38									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui JohnIII... WOW... that was very calm. If I was in your shoes, I'd have ripped his head off. Good form!

No need for sarcasm .

	21-06-2002 15:08									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Italy was cheated five or six goals...

I heard just 4. Now 6 ?

	21-06-2002 15:40									#93
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FIFA admits Italy-Korea referee blundered
SEOUL, June 21 (AFP)
The Italian-South Korea referee was wrong to send off Italian captain Francesco Totti for diving FIFA admitted on Friday.
Edgardo Codesal, a member of FIFA's referee committee, said television replays proved that Byron Moreno, who has been branded public enemy numer one in Italy for expelling Totti, had blundered.
Moreno had claimed there had been no contact with a Korean defender and that Totti had dived.
"Totti dived. I was 15-20 metres away. I had a very clear view. The right decision," he insisted.
But Codesal, who refereed the 1990 World Cup final, said television had proved Moreno was wrong.
"If you freeze the screen you see contact between Totti and a Korean player," said Codesal.
But he refused to criticise the Ecuadorian referee.
"It was a very difficult situation for the referee," said Codesal. "At the speed of the game today mistakes can happen. It is impossible to see everything."
Codesal refuted claims from Italy that Moreno had been part of a conspiracy to ensure Italy went out early from the tournament.
"Referees are honest men and try to do their best. The idea is to try to be fair, this is very important but mistakes always happen," he said.
"The referee's mistake is part of the game, like the player's mistake, like the coach's mistake. We need to be more human with the referee," he added.
Codesal warned that one mistake should not be allowed to mar the tournament.
He said that out of the 5,000 odd decisions taken by referee and linesmen in the tournament to date only four or five important mistakes had been made.
"About one per thousand. It is low," said Codesal.
FIFA President Sepp Blatter joined the battle of words over refereeing and called for the system on how referees are selected to be changed.
At present referees come from all six FIFA confderations.
"A World Cup that has the best players and teams in the world should be overseen by the best referees regardless of their nationality," said Blatter. "From now on we will call in the best, full stop, even if they come from just a handful of countries."
Codesal said he was not opposed to such an idea.
"I am always open to ideas that would improve the level but to get the solution is not easy. Referees are human beings not machines," he said.

	21-06-2002 15:53									#94
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And now Italian TV are getting in on the act:

http://media.guardian.co.uk/worldcu...,741487,00.html

- "[The case] would seek to have Fifa reimburse damages suffered by [RAI] following the exit of the Italian team from the World Cup on the basis of universally recognised refereeing errors, errors that were so blatant they could only be described as the product of serious fraud," RAI said in a statement. -

	21-06-2002 15:56									#95
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why not. in america, you can get damages for much more ludicruous things.

	21-06-2002 16:00									#96
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...um...because this isn't America?

	21-06-2002 17:54									#97
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Daewoo shop in via del Corso, Roma...

CORNUTO!!!

Attachment: ciccionazzo.jpg
This has been downloaded 86 time(s).

	21-06-2002 18:00									#98
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Maybe Italia will declare the war to Korea ...
Will be fun ...

	21-06-2002 18:15									#99
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We would lose by a golden bomb

	21-06-2002 18:46									#100
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hahahahahhhhhhhhh

	21-06-2002 19:10									#101
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Uhoh... looks like the Italians were right!

They should be playing against Spain.... South Korea should of never made it.

This is pathetic...

quote: The Italian-South Korea referee was wrong to send off Italian captain Francesco Totti for diving FIFA admitted on Friday.

Even Fifa admits it! That loser moreno.... I say give South Korea and Italy another game to see who wins....

	21-06-2002 21:36									#102
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[/quote]Even Fifa admits it! That loser moreno.... I say give South Korea and Italy another game to see who wins....[/quote]

-I've got a better idea, make Spain play them right before they play Korea, to demonstrate that Spain would have beaten them anyway, so there is no point

	21-06-2002 21:44									#103
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quote: Originally posted by JohnIII Angelo, this post made my blood boil with righteous indignation. I'll tone it down a bit, though.

Yes, i understand you, i had the same feelings watching the match...

quote: Originally posted by JohnIII If an assistant referee can see a part of the attacker ahead of the defender, he is supposed to give the attacker as offside. Tomassi's foot was ahead of the Korean defender.

When ball started? Let me see it again... No way, look at it another time.

quote: Originally posted by JohnIII Totti handled the ball as if he was expecting a penalty, as he fell. Watch it again, and not with patriotism obscuring your view.

Ok, but just if you watch it again without prejudices obscuring your view

"If you freeze the screen you see contact between Totti and a Korean player," said Codesal.
Incredible, even Codesal has patriotism obscuring his view!

quote: Originally posted by JohnIII If he wasn't expecting a a penalty from a non-foul, then what was he doing? Deliberate handball? Trying to stop the ball from going for a goal kick?

I never told that Totti wasn't expecting a penalty (he was downed by the defender!), i simply told that it wasn't a penalty, It's not a penalty because defender touched ball before touching Totti, but it's not a dive because the contact there was and was also a clear one.

quote: Originally posted by JohnIII PLAYING RUGBY?!

Well, i don't know if it was rugby, but since Moreno and his creek didn't applied soccer rules it definitely wasn't soccer...

quote: Originally posted by JohnIII No, he's more of a midfielder.

Really?... I think you'll have to warn Ahn, when him arrived here he started saying he was a forwarder...
And if you still have doubts look at the article Sten posted above:

"So to put and end to this 'controversy', we can say that the decision to release Ahn or not will only be based on technical issues?
- Correct, it's only something regarding the depth of our squad, seen as we already have a lot of forwarders on the team"

quote: Originally posted by JohnIII Besides, why release him now?

For two reasons:
1) He's not a good player.
2) Gaucci has a good PR office. (and i don't see anything scandalous here, remember reason nr.1, or he has to keep Ahn just to avoid your critics?)

quote: Originally posted by JohnIII Will Moreno want to go to a club where the chairman will obviously hate him for helping knock Italy out? Yeah right.

So you too think that Moreno helped knocking out Italy? So what's the matter we're discussing here?

quote: Originally posted by JohnIII In addition, the standard of refereeing has been pretty good.

But if even Blatter admits that this WC will be remembered for bad refereeing!!!

quote: Originally posted by JohnIII Italy have just had bad luck and, and this is the important thing, NOT PLAYED WELL ENOUGH.

I repeat it another time, i'm not discussing the play, i'm underlining the incompetence of the referee creek during this WC, and don't try to say that it's not an important thing because when there is a regular golden-gol disallowed, then all your beautiful arguments about good play against bad play simply cease to exists.

quote: Originally posted by JohnIII If he had been JUST holding the player back, the referee would have let it go. But the defender pulled the Korean over.

Don't try to put the question on grammar: a HOLD of a forwarder when the game is still became a PULL as soon as the forwarder starts to run, so it's not a question about HOLD or PULL (which are the same as soon as the ball moves AND are the same according to FIFA rules too),
the question remains why Moreno, who had notice the HOLD/PULL long before the corner kick, let the game go ahead just to give a penalty as soon as the ball enters penalty area, i'm not saying Moreno is corrupted (even if i think so, but without proofs this means nothing), but just that he is an incompetent referee which is not worthy to referee a flat owner's tournament

quote: Originally ranted by JohnIII Less of the obnoxious racism, please.

No, i'm curious, where exactly i showed racism?
It's because i talked of pokemon? or just because i placed 'european' in a phrase?
Ok, let's rewrite it as
...when you are playing a World Cup and you see that they placed a strange kind of pokemon who probably discovered only two months ago that soccer was not an - place here a country with an ocean between it and Ecuador - disease
It's ok for you? or you still see racism in it?
Bah, your arguments should be very weak if, instead of talking about soccer rules and referees, you start yelling "racist! racist!" (in a thread about soccer )

quote: Originally posted by JohnIII and the bad refereeing is not endemic

'till this WC...

quote: Originally posted by JohnIII So Materazzi, Iuliano, Panucci, and Maldini don't exist? If you have two players out in any position from a 23-man squad, you are in a bit of trouble. Look at England's midfield.

Calm down, i was joking (haven't you noticed the smily ?)

quote: Originally posted by Sten Sture On Totti: he certainly embellished the contact; as he has been known to do 'on occasion'

But the contact was there, so you can't call it a dive (and, i repeat, Moreno was Kms aways and covered, how on the hell did he noticed, since it's not clear even in replays?)

quote: Originally posted by Sten Sture On offside calls: from watching more soccer/calcio/football over the past four years than all other americans combined, I would offer the opinion that the 'even with the last defender' is almost never called onside, even in the Serie A. Linesmen should be more liberal with the calls.

Well, FIFA organized WC, FIFA wrote official rules, FIFA designed referees, one could expects that referees designed had at least read laws of game.

quote: Originally bray by Imran Siddiqui If I was in your shoes, I'd have ripped his head off.

quote: Originally posted by JohnIII No need for sarcasm.

quote: Originally posted by JohnIII ...If he wasn't expecting a a penalty from a non-foul, then what was he doing? Deliberate handball? Trying to stop the ball from going for a goal kick? PLAYING RUGBY?!

quote: Originally posted by SpencerH "Totti's sending off against Korea was neither a penalty nor a dive. A referee with a feeling (for the game) would not have shown him the card, bearing in mind the same player had already been booked."

Blatter, Blatter, and who designed a referee with a bad feeling (for the game) in a match involving the home team? FIFA or my grandma?

quote: Originally posted by SpencerH "I would do it again," he told Il Messaggero newspaper. "I don't even have to watch the replays. Totti dived."

And there's someone here that still believe this is a good referee?

quote: Originally posted by Tolls And now Italian TV are getting in on the act: http://media.guardian.co.uk/worldcu...,741487,00.html

First row of this, so called, article:
"Well, as least we're not as bad losers as the Italians."
Phew, this is going to be a really unbiased article...

And the last phrase from the article:
"The president of Fifa, Sepp Blatter, interviewed in Italian sports daily La Gazzette dello Sport yesterday, agreed that some of the refereeing in the World Cup had been poor, but told Italy to stop being such bad losers."
this is really a correct and unbiased way to report an interview!
Correct words of Blatter were reported by LaRusso, and, considering that Blatter is the "King of FIFA" it's enough clear that this WC is not as good in refereeing as JohnIII and others thinks...

quote: Originally posted by Prometeus Daewoo shop in via del Corso, Roma...

Senti Prom, ho perso quel bellissimo fotomontaggio di Moreno e dei "Rinco Boys", non è che a te è arrivato e me lo puoi spedire, lo voglio mettere come sfondo al desktop...

quote: ]Originally posted by Victor -I've got a better idea, make Spain play them right before they play Korea, to demonstrate that Spain would have beaten them anyway, so there is no point

Make us play with everyone you want but, PLEASE, let Moreno home...

Anyway, it seems to me that i said what i wanted to say, thanks God the match has been recorded and everyone may re-view it , FIFA soccer rules are public, so everyone may look at them, and if still remains someone who believe that refereeing in this WC is good enough, well, or he doesn't know soccer or his eyes are closed by prejudices and in both cases it's not a problem of mine...
And now excuse me, i've to buy a Spanish shirt...

Greetings,
Angelo

	21-06-2002 21:48									#104
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I thought the refereeing for the Deutschland-USA game was good. The Americans I am travelling with disagree strongly.

	22-06-2002 00:22									#105
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i didn't read much of the thread but...

the refs seem to make a couple mistakes a game that are quite costly(and a lot of the time match deciding). why don't they use instant replay to verify their important calls?

	22-06-2002 00:46									#106
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pg - replay is considered to be too slow; we have seen in this cup that there is a premium on fitness, and teams that have been able to run around for 90+ have had an advantage. Replay would force a stop to on field action and every one would get to rest and recover, which is not inherently a bad thing, but it would change the game.

	22-06-2002 00:49									#107
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They should have three delegates at the table and have a minute vote if there is a controversial decision... that would clear 90% of the cases. (and a couple of extra camera angles would help).

	22-06-2002 01:10									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Victor Galis I thought the refereeing for the Deutschland-USA game was good. The Americans I am travelling with disagree strongly.

I didn't see all the game.. just the highlights.
But I recall seeing a German player, that is not Kahn, handed the ball and saved it from going into the net.

Saluti

	22-06-2002 01:50									#109
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All my American classmates saw that too, but I've seen the clip five times now, and everytime the ball simply hits the German on the thigh. (Mind you I was sober, they were not).

	22-06-2002 02:33									#110
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Victor cursed us .

	22-06-2002 02:35									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Victor Galis -I've got a better idea, make Spain play them right before they play Korea, to demonstrate that Spain would have beaten them anyway, so there is no point

But you see Spain has the chance of beating South Korea.... a bigger chance than playing against Italy.