08-04-2000 22:07									#1
	Are these "bugs" or part of the game? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I'm looking forward to playing with Wes's new Med mod but I was wondering if these 2 issues were ever addressed by Activision or anyone else.
(1) There is no announcement when another civ starts building the Stonehendge wonder.(There is one when they are almost done and when they finish.)
(2) All pollution from a particular civ ceased when that civ finished researching Gaia Theory. While this may make sense on some level, I have not seen this documented in the Great Library or in the game manuals.
Thanks for any help on these issues.

	09-04-2000 00:04									#2
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2)Is a bug, I am pretty sure. I noticed it in my games, as have others.
1)I never noticed this glitch before. I am not doubting what you said, it's just hard to notice something that *doesn't* happen. I will try to look out for this in the future.

	09-04-2000 10:25									#3
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There's a change to pollution levels based on what you most recently researched, although I haven't seen anything in the documentation. Not saying it isn't there, but I haven't seen it.

So if you just got Robotics, your pollution increases on the graph even if you haven't yet built the (heavily polluting) Robotics Plant. Similarly your pollution drops when you get Fuel Cells, even before you build the Eco-Transit.

From what I can tell, Robotics and Smart Materials raise it; Fuel Cells and Fusion lower it. Others I'm not sure, but Gaia Theory does seem to eliminate it. The graph for my civilization drops to zero, and my cities disappear from the list in the Diplomacy/Intelligence screen. Does anybody know the exact rules for this?

	09-04-2000 16:08									#4
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Wes,

I can confirm Dbrowski's comment about the lack of any announcement when another civ. starts building Stonehenge.

I'm fairly sure this happens regularly, but maybe it's because another civ. has changed from building another wonder, and I presume you wouldn't see any anouncement of this?

John

	09-04-2000 18:01									#5
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Certain techs do raise or lower your pollution without building any improvements. I can remember seeing it mentioned in the strategy guide, which incidently, I lent to someone, so I can't check it right now. I know that Mass Production raised your pollution before you built anything else. When I get the book back, I'll check it out if no one else has answered it already.

- MKL

	09-04-2000 22:43									#6
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I looked through the advances text, and found the settings.
Oil Refining and Smart Materials increase pollution from city size and production by 1, meaning 100% I assume. Mass Prod. raises it by 50%.
Conservation, Nanoassembly and Gaia Theory each decrease these things by 100%.

Maybe the bug occurs because the third reducer, Gaia Theory, brings the total effect of the advances to a negative number?
Try setting Gaia Theory to -0.5, and see if this affects the bug.

	10-04-2000 18:54									#7
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Yeah, they were the ones I was thinking of. I won't ask for my book back in a hurry then.

Incidently, that pollution information was about the only thing I learnt from the strategy guide. The only other use I get out of it is for the tables at the back.

- MKL

	10-04-2000 22:29									#8
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Regarding the Stonehenge bug, I've noticed that happening in several PBEM games that I am in, and its been driving me crazy - especially when I am the one going for Stonehenge and get beaten to it because I didn't know someone else was also going for it too.

Now I know better

	17-04-2000 06:36									#9
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Wes, I changed the value to .5 for Gaia theory and thought that would fix the bug.(It seemed to make sense.) In my current game I haven't even discovered Gaia theory yet and already all pollution from my entire civ is zero. Very strange. I was pretty deep into the game, though, maybe the bug occurs after a certain number of advances are reached. Back to the drawing board. By the way, Wes, the Med mod is great, very challenging. Can't wait for the finishing touches.

	17-04-2000 07:06									#10
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My last post is incorrect. Switching the value does work. I just realized I hadn't discoverd Smart Materials(the other "positive" polluter) in my current game. I was only one turn away from doing so and when I did, pollution returned. I would suggest setting the coefficient to 1.0 for Mass Production(up from .5) and reduce the coefficient for Smart Materials to .5(down from 1.0) as well as, of course, setting either nano-assembly OR gaia theory to .5(from 1.0). This way you will only see "zero"(actually negative) pollution if you discover conservation, gaia theory, and nano assembly ALL before you discover smart materials.

	17-04-2000 09:42									#11
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I am happy to hear that you found the fix.
Looking over the advances chart, if I raise the effect from Mass Prod. to 1, how about moving the reduction effect from Nano to Superconductor? This would allow you to get to it faster, and seems to make more logic as far as what the advance does (I would think maglevs would be a clean transportation source).
I will add the list of these polluting and reducing advances to the Med mod readme. I am sure a lot of players don't even know about them.

	17-04-2000 14:42									#12
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I think I'm able to solve the Stonehenge problem. I wrote a trigger that gives everyone a warning if someone starts building the Stonehenge-wonder. I'm at my university now so I can't test it yet and I have to check a few things as well but I'm pretty sure it will work. Maybe something for your Med Mod Wes?

I'll post it here if it doesn't screw up the thread, but as I said, it won't work like this quite yet:

In script.slc:

code:
trigger 'StonehengeStarted' when (wonder.started) {
	if (IsWonderType(wonder, 'WONDER_STONEHENGE')) {
		MessageAllBut(player.1, 'StonehengeStart');
	}
}


MessageType 'StonehengeStart' {
	MessageType(???);	// have to look this up
	Text(ID_STONEHENGE_STARTED);
}

code:
STONEHENGE_STARTED	"[player.1.name] started building the Stonehenge Wonder"

	18-04-2000 07:09									#13
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Wes, that sounds good to me.(You could even split it up,-0.5 for superconductor and -0.5 for nanoassembly). One way to eliminate the "negative" pollution altogether would be to have smart materials be a prerequisite for gaia theory.

	19-04-2000 01:00									#14
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I finished the SLIC-code at home and tested it but it is no good. The problem is in the Wonder.txt file itself (I think) and not in the code responsible for showing the message. I swapped the Sphinx and the Stonehenge wonders and then the Sphinx wasn't announced but Stonehonge was. So it's just that the first wonder of Wonder.txt isn't announced.
There are two possible solutions for this as far as I can see, neither of them is pretty but it's still better than nothing. You can either make a wonder you don't want to build yourself anyway (AI Entity anyone? ) the first wonder of Wonder.txt so it isn't really a problem if you miss the announcement, or you can make a 'dummy'-wonder and place that as the first wonder in the file. With a 'dummy'-wonder I mean a wonder that comes available with Future Flight 10 or something like that and that gives no benefit other than perhaps a higher Civ-score. There's no real satisfatory solution but I still hope this helps anyone.

Locutus

	19-04-2000 02:06									#15
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How about the Source Code Wonder: All software is open and clearly documented; all patches and hacks are abolished.

	19-04-2000 03:23									#16
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I would probably favor a dummy wonder, but either solution would throw off all the wonder links. Someone would have to do a lot of work to straighten them out. If someone wants to do that, it would be great, but right now I don't know which would be the lesser or two evils.

	19-04-2000 10:05									#17
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Or you could just move the first wonder to last. In that case you have to fix only one wonder's GL links.

	20-04-2000 04:25									#19
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Yeah, I guess Paul's suggestion would be the best thing to do. It would mean that you would not be warned when an AI began the Wormhole probe, but I guess this is the best thing we can do.
I will make this change for the next time I upload the text files, probably in a few weeks. In the meantime, you can change this yourselves easy enough.

Btw, the Source Code wonder, and Locutus' reply were hilarious.

	20-04-2000 16:18									#20
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I kind of misinterpreted Pauls idea originally. What I was thinking of is creating a dummy wonder and putting that as the first wonder and then moving Stonehenge to the end of the file, making that the last wonder. This way you won't screw up the links and you'd still be informed about all wonders.

Who said Borg don't have a sense of humour?

	20-04-2000 17:35									#21
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Actually, it seems that Wes misinterpreted my idea. What you just said is exactly what I had in mind.

	25-04-2000 01:14									#22
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hey hey hey! wait a sec ! gaya theory disables polution ? thats wrong! so why the heck do I need the Gaya controller ? techs do pass between civilizations in secs , you know ( ok not secs , years , but you know what do I mean ) . but if you say the only thing gaya cintroller is good for is the food , plz mention it !

	25-04-2000 05:26									#23
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Ok, guys, I have made the dummy, moved Stonehenge to the end of the line of the origial wonders, and even altered the link from Astronomy.

	26-04-2000 20:38									#24
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Dalgetti: the Gaia Controller is stronger; it removes all pollution from all civilizations, not just yours. I think it even negates the global-warming effects of nuclear attacks and space launches, but I could be mistaken on that part.