18-06-2002 23:42									#1
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Thought I try this just to see how it would work. I changed the scout to be an American only unit. Gave it both an offensive and defensive capability and about 20 movement so I could scope out an entire continent in about 5-6 turns. Now here is the fun part. After running through the native villages and acquiring about 10 techs in the space of 6 turns I find out from the great book that I am third most advanced civilization in the world. As the game progresses there are still civilizations with advances I don't have even though my resources are all going into science and I am getting them in the 4-8 turn range. Early in the game there can't be tech trading among the civs since no one except I have explored that far yet. Later game I'm just pounding on the science.

I just love when the game adjusts. You try and cheat and it gets you nowhere.

	19-06-2002 00:05									#2
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The AI will trade tech faster than you can research it until you are very well developed.

I don't know about the early bit, but once contact is established it is easier to keep up by buying from the AI. At higher levels.

	19-06-2002 00:37									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The point is they have to research it. I got 10 techs that at that point in the game should take about 30 turns to get, each. So for another civilization to be ahead of me they would have to be researching and getting tech at less than 4 turns each. That is the minimum set in the rules. I mean this was still at 2200 bc.

	19-06-2002 09:09									#4
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Yes, you're right. The early bit is odd.

There are some flaws in some of the reports. For instance the military advisor including workers when it tells you that you are strong, when you aren't.

OTOH. How many civs? What level? I too have seen the AI take off like a shot in the ancient era and leave me in the dust. I wonder if it can be explained some way that doesn't involve the AI cheating, but it does sound suspicious.

	19-06-2002 22:42									#5
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Well, every trait has its own starting tech, no? If everyone meets each other and trades with each other, and researches one more in those 30 turns and trades those, they all could potentially have 12 each by then.

My strategy for the ancient age is to trade everything. If you're too isolationist then you deserve to be left behind. I don't not research, like nye and some others; I keep the science rate at about 70% and research as fast as I can. Trade your trait techs with the first person you meet, then trait yours and all theirs with the next person, etc. I've found that being the first to make these trades (i.e. the first to meet other civs) can make or break your ancient age development.

You may think you're "helping" the ai but you're really not. If you take all their gold away, even if you get ripped off in the process, you stop them from trading with each other anymore. Then, towards the end of the ancient age when you finally get that one tech that no one has, like Monarchy or Literature, you can do as you please. Get all of the other ancient age techs in one fell swoop, or get rich, or just stay in the tech lead. When they can only trade with you, not each other, you become very powerful.

Also, what difficulty are you playing at. Does the ai start out with free techs on higher levels? I thought not, but I haven't tried it so... (I remember that they certainly did in civ2)

	20-06-2002 02:55									#6
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It's too early in the game for the civs to meet. I play a huge map with only 7 civs total and I have upped the starting distances between civs as well. There is no way they could have traded the tech. I certainly didn't trade them any of mine.

I had obtained Democracy by about 100AD and the other civs weren't too far behind. Unless they were given advances to keep the play close they shouldn't have gotten them in pace with me. Oh well, that's how it goes I guess.

	20-06-2002 03:20									#7
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quote: Originally posted by walruskkkch It's too early in the game for the civs to meet. I play a huge map with only 7 civs total and I have upped the starting distances between civs as well. There is no way they could have traded the tech. I certainly didn't trade them any of mine. I had obtained Democracy by about 100AD and the other civs weren't too far behind. Unless they were given advances to keep the play close they shouldn't have gotten them in pace with me. Oh well, that's how it goes I guess.

There is also the fact that tech costs are reduced each time a tech is researched. It wouldnt suprise me if the tech research of each civ was done in a fashion that made sure they were all researching different things. Then they all get together and trade.