19-06-2002 01:25									#1
	Multi-Site Democracy Game Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Some people have been discussing the possibility of a multi-site multiplayer Civ 2 democracy.

Between GameCatcher, Civilization Fanatics Center, and Apolyton Civilization Site.

I think it's a good idea. But will require much discussion and planning so don't worry about it interferring with the current games yet.

This next part really doesn't have much to do with you...but it's good to know:
Now...many people at GC will play for CFC. And we have no problem with that. But TF has told me HE WILL NOT allow a private forum for demo game participatants as he hates these types of "forum wars". I explained it wasn't a war...but anyway....his mind is made up.

So we could host a private CFC player forum at GC. That is no problem.

Here comes the part that will affect you:
Now.....we have two options. Either Apolyton would hold their own private forum....OR GC could host a forum for Poly players. This will make management of DL and cheaters MUCH easier. But again it's up to Poly.

If we have multiple sites..then we will need a neutral group of mod(s) from each side checking IP's for DL's. Soda (aka Unknown Soldier) has said he would do this job from GC. And from his work in the GC MP Demo Game....he is an excellent choice. Since TF won't allow it at CFC...we don't need a CFC mod.....and depending on what Apolyton decides....well...we will wait and see.

Anyway.....lets start discussing it!

Other discussion threads:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...4110#post334110
and
http://www.civgaming.net/gamecatche...p?p=23345#23345

Edit: Well...TF is REALLY opposed the idea since he closed the topic!!!
We will find other ways to reach CFC players....he will NOT stop this game!

	19-06-2002 01:39									#2
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Whoa my first post at da big poly... I've always been scared to post here... Hmmmmmm anyway...

As cornmaster said, I already volunteered to do the "dirty job" for the gamecatcher section if this game becomes alive. I'm not a veteran demo game nor civ2 player. I'd qualify myself as a less than average player, so I don't mind if this makes it impossible for me to play

So if people here are interested to get it, and admin ready to host some kind of private forum, we would need some kind of central IP database so people aren't allowed in more than one team. Also have a couple of other features to be sure everything is made to prevent cheating and the likes... Anyway, I'm probably too enthusiastic about this, so I'll wait before some reacts before I make long-term plans

	19-06-2002 01:43									#3
	Suffering from ads?

Im all for it!

	19-06-2002 01:56									#4
	Remove this text

Sounds like a promising idea if we can get it to work.

How do the site owners feel about this? MarkG?

	19-06-2002 02:09									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Equally, my first post here. Soda and I are in the same boat, I suppose.

Anyways, I'm here to see how it goes and all, being that I'm a team leader of GC's current MP game.

I hope this turns out well, I'd look forward to a game between our three sites.

	19-06-2002 02:15									#6
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Yeah...that's a good question Sixchan....

Who will lead the GC team. Me, you, or Talar.

Or maybe we can rule via Trimivate (or however you spell that word!!)

	19-06-2002 02:57									#7
	Tired of ads?

Well I think the apolyton players won't mined signing up for a another web site, BUT I DO! I ain't going to sign up for a game then never use it again, but if we must............ I'm ok with it............

	19-06-2002 02:59									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Cool....

Support.

If a few more people will support it...I'll get Unknown Soldier to set up the forums soon.

	19-06-2002 03:00									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

When dose it starts?

	19-06-2002 03:03									#10
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Whenever discussions are complete.... Will be a few weeks.....at least.

	19-06-2002 03:12									#11
	Support Apolyton

I'm all for it.

When would it begin?

	19-06-2002 03:23									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

Prob'ly not for a while, but all the support is good to hear.

Now if we can just reach CFC without TF interfering...

	19-06-2002 04:02									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by CornMaster Cool.... Support. If a few more people will support it...I'll get Unknown Soldier to set up the forums soon.

Seems you're even more enthusiastic about it Seriously, maybe we should wait for the answer of apolyton's admin before we open the forums... Just a matter of having their opinion and how they react about this project.

	19-06-2002 04:03									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

good luck

edit: getting cfc support without tf interfering that is

	19-06-2002 04:08									#15
	Inflate your Upload Space

I'm an Apolyton person. First, last, and always.

If it is here, I'll do it; if elsewhere, no.

There is another issue... Cheating is a big possibility. Quite frankly, I don't see much hope for large numbers of competing humans to play without someone cheating. Sorry if I seem a bit cynical about that. I don't see a way to prevent that from poisoning the contest.

	19-06-2002 04:14									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by cavebear I'm an Apolyton person. First, last, and always. If it is here, I'll do it; if elsewhere, no.

I don't think MarkG or DanQ will set up three private forums for the democracy game....actually...I'm positive they won't. That's why I never even suggested it.

quote: There is another issue... Cheating is a big possibility. Quite frankly, I don't see much hope for large numbers of competing humans to play without someone cheating. Sorry if I seem a bit cynical about that. I don't see a way to prevent that from poisoning the contest.

Will you cheat?

(I'll assume you will say no)

Then that's all you have to worry about. Forget about everyone else. I know for a fact that I won't cheat. And that no one on my team will either.

And with people like Dell19 leading the CFC team....Cheating won't be a problem their either...when you throw in the Pellaken variable....then there may be question....but otherwise I see no problems.

quote: good luck edit: getting cfc support without tf interfering that is

That mission is already underway.

	19-06-2002 04:14									#17
	Increase Your PM Length

Hmmmmmm well I already talked about it in my first post. The solution would be to have an IP adress database so administrator who allow people in teams can actually prevent people who are already in other team from joining a second one. Now surely it would be easier to do it on a single forum, but I can see why people want to keep it in their own forum. Actually, I support this way. It gives a real nationality feeling, and would be great along with the role-playing of the game. But as I also said earlier, I'd like to wait for admin's opinion.

	19-06-2002 04:28									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

why did all you GC people jump ship on the CFC game anyways? i just stopped posting there all together and left the game, but i'm curious as to why more people left

guys we should defintely do this! it seems like theirs bad blood between the other two teams already! we can play them off each other and win!

	19-06-2002 04:33									#19
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I didn't actually leave the game... But the position that interested me was taken out, so I had no longer any position in the administration, and I simply no longer had time with my other duties and life in general. Anyway, I'm happy there are still a lot of people interested in that kind of games

	19-06-2002 04:47									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I already posted that I think it wouldn't be as fun and wouldn't work as well as one nation.

	19-06-2002 04:50									#21
	Tired of ads?

Well, only to add a bit of information, we already have an experimental mp game between different teams that have been formed on our forum, and except for a little problem with a certain person, it has been a lot of fun since the beggining, and I think people are getting as much fun. And since every team would get more people than our standard 5 to 10 members per team, I guess it would simply add to the complexity and make it even more fun. We could have international institution and things like that. It's definitely better than a single player game, IMO

	19-06-2002 04:56									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by CornMaster Will you cheat? (I'll assume you will say no) Then that's all you have to worry about. Forget about everyone else. I know for a fact that I won't cheat. And that no one on my team will either.

First, that's insulting. You changed the general to the personal. I raised a legitimate issue, you made it an anecdotal one.

You are prepared to in some way guarantee that among several dozen members of your side that no one will cheat? I'm impressed.

quote: And with people like Dell19 leading the CFC team....Cheating won't be a problem their either...when you throw in the Pellaken variable....then there may be question....but otherwise I see no problems.

I will restate that you cannot logically guarantee no one will cheat, and that is so much more a possibility with large numbers of players. The game will come down to whose side cheats less. There has to be a mechanism that will prevent this liklihood before such a game will work.

	19-06-2002 05:04									#23
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well... Trust is everything. Leader would probably have to control who get the game. And even if some "underling" ( j/k) gets the game, it wouldn't mind much as long as the team leader doesn't cheat. Anyway, it's certain that you can't guaratee no one will cheat, but trust is everything. If you pass the sav file to someone in the single player demo game, you already have to trust him, because he could cheat too...

	19-06-2002 05:08									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

The only way to do it would be with a password, but even that can be hacked around...

You would have to REALLY screen the folks and ensure that they wouldn't cheat.

Even then you can't tell.

Too bad they can't remake Civ 2!

	19-06-2002 05:25									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

It is my personal experience that people react differently against the computer than against other people. It afffects their priorities.

	19-06-2002 05:28									#26
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Hmmmmmmm well again, trust is everything. Anyway, this is supposed to be fun. If people can't have fun without winning, I think they should quit playing these games. If you always win, you won't have much fun anyway. People must simply remember the main objective is not to determine who has the best civ player, the main objective is to have fun. On a more realist point of view, the team leader would still have to try to know to whom they can give the game so they look at it, and to whom they should hide it from.

	19-06-2002 05:58									#27
	Remove this text

i dont see any problems if

1) there are actually people from our forums interested in this

2) the game is played here: both the main forum and the private team forums

3) teams are formed from people already playing in democracy games and entries in the teams are closed prior to the begining of the game(i dont see how one could cheat this way)

	19-06-2002 06:08									#28
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by MarkG i dont see any problems if 1) there are actually people from our forums interested in this

There seems to be a lot interested and it's been only a few hours, I guess that won't be a problem.

quote: 2) the game is played here: both the main forum and the private team forums

Do you mean if the game is played entirely here??? I guess that's not what you mean, since the team forums on other site would be even better and could prevent even more the cheatting. Or if that's what you mean, I don't think people from other site would enjoy playing a "site game" entirely on one site...

quote: 3) teams are formed from people already playing in democracy games and entries in the teams are closed prior to the begining of the game(i dont see how one could cheat this way)

Yes... That would be a good idea too. But I guess that it's obvious that people will want to join the team of the site they belong too, so I don't think it would be a problem (except for the forum permissions though )

	19-06-2002 06:21									#29
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

OK, new approach. Who and how many people get the game file?

	19-06-2002 09:40									#30
	Put an end to popups!

Just the 3 players that actually play the game. They can use it to make screenshots for the rest of the players. No one else needs the game.

Also if MarkG wants to set up a forum for the Apolyton team...that's cool.