19-06-2002 09:22									#1
	Should the SMC have control over captured cities? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

should the SMC be allowed to rule the captured cities for a few turns, to quickly rebuild his military on the spot, control resistance, etc? for how long?

you have 2 days to vote.

this POLL brought to you by supreme military commander UberKruX. Glory Comes From Spilt Blood.

Last edited by Inverse Icarus on 19-06-2002 at 09:28

	19-06-2002 09:28									#2
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oh, and for curious kiddies, i voted for "Yes for 10 turns after resistance ends". some resistances can last a good deal of time if you dont have 20 units squatting in the city.

this post brought to you by supreme military commander UberKruX. Glory Comes From Spilt Blood.

	19-06-2002 09:32									#3
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Uber, as SMC can you give an idea of how many military units are required to suppress a city flip?

Like how many per pop or any formulas?

	19-06-2002 09:38									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Timeline Uber, as SMC can you give an idea of how many military units are required to suppress a city flip? Like how many per pop or any formulas?

i dont have any official forumlas or anything, but i usually have AT LEAST a 1:2 unit to population ratio.

if the enemy has a higher culture than us, or the city was a large, high cultured one, i would definately station more units there. my stomach flips whenever a city flips back and i lose my 10 or so units garrisioning it.

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	19-06-2002 09:45									#5
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Change all pop to tax collectors. More cash, starve.

New turn. Change all pop to tax collectors. More cash, starve.

New turn. Change all pop to tax collectors. More cash, starve.

and so on until 1 pop is reached.

I have never lost a city to a flip while at war since I started doing this, and almost never at peace since 2 units give a 2 to 1 ratio to the remaining natives.

	19-06-2002 10:12									#6
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Change all pop to tax collectors. More cash, starve. New turn. Change all pop to tax collectors. More cash, starve. New turn. Change all pop to tax collectors. More cash, starve. and so on until 1 pop is reached. I have never lost a city to a flip while at war since I started doing this, and almost never at peace since 2 units give a 2 to 1 ratio to the remaining natives.

exactly why i wanted to command cities. i'm pretty sure the "panzie ass cultural comission" as i cal them wont stand for starving / pop rushing a city to a 1

	19-06-2002 11:11									#7
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Well, thanks for revealing your true motives, Mr. Genocidal Maniac...

(-and you're damned right we won't stand for it... )

	19-06-2002 13:03									#8
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Why not?

If the new subjects do not welcome us as liberators, why not clear out some room for Apolytonians?

	19-06-2002 13:57									#9
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Why not? If the new subjects do not welcome us as liberators, why not clear out some room for Apolytonians?

...and if we ever have a domestic problem, why not nuke ourselves off the face of the planet?

	19-06-2002 16:48									#10
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No! Don't you trust the city planner?? And if the city is worthless (very little production and trade) what use it it to you?

	19-06-2002 18:27									#11
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I like the starving idea. Though I like culture, this seems to be a good method of accomplishing what needs to be done.

	19-06-2002 18:42									#12
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As the one responsible of happiness, it is the city planner's job.
The job of the military advisor would be to move his units in his newly captured cities, so that they resplenish health, and to petition the city planner to build units in the core cities. That's called teamwork, and that's the core of the Democracy Game.
There is no reason the military advisor has any direct control over cities... Do you imagine the science minister having direct control over some units ?

	19-06-2002 19:08									#13
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hi ,

there should have been an other option in the poll ,
control until resistance has ended , ....

have a nice day

	19-06-2002 19:47									#14
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX exactly why i wanted to command cities. i'm pretty sure the "panzie ass cultural comission" as i cal them wont stand for starving / pop rushing a city to a 1

Though I have disagreed with you in the past Uber, I find myself agreeing here. Bleeding a captured city dry works wonders (no pun intended) when you're trying to force its population back into line. In real life it works better to make the people love you by pampering them, but civ aint real life! Besides, if for some reason we cede the city back to them, it would be nothing more than a charred crater.

I'm voting for 5 turns after resistance ends.

	19-06-2002 19:53									#15
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in times of war, the SMC should have control over captured cities for short periods of time. i vote yes, 10 turns after resistance ends. the hawk party backs uber on this one.

	19-06-2002 20:04									#16
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I think 5 turns (or less) after resistance has ended is quite good.
I would actually say that the SMC should control such cities at least until resistance ends.

	19-06-2002 20:52									#17
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hrm, me thinks we're going to need gramphos to come up with an algorithm for this one.

and about you culture loving anti starving people human rights bleeding hearts: you're the reason america hasn't won a war since the 1950s.

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	19-06-2002 20:56									#18
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i'm not risking 10+ of my men garrisioning a size 22 city that will flip back any second, destroying all my men without a fight.

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	19-06-2002 20:59									#19
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UberKrux :
I still don't understand why YOU'd have the control over captured cities rather than the city planner... I'm not asking questions about city starving (this is not the issue of the poll). Care to explain why it would be better for the empire ?

	19-06-2002 21:02									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor UberKrux : I still don't understand why YOU'd have the control over captured cities rather than the city planner... I'm not asking questions about city starving (this is not the issue of the poll).

i'm trying to give the SMC power to supress the rebellion by any means neccessary, in order to protect his troops. he can also command what needs to be built there, as he is fighting the war, and walls or a unit may be more useful than a temple or library, depending on the suitation.

another good reason, already stated, is that the army may need to be refreshed, ie rest in the city and rush a few more units while they recover.

	19-06-2002 21:07									#21
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Thanks for the clear answer.

	19-06-2002 21:15									#22
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX i'm trying to give the SMC power to supress the rebellion by any means neccessary, in order to protect his troops. he can also command what needs to be built there, as he is fighting the war, and walls or a unit may be more useful than a temple or library, depending on the suitation. another good reason, already stated, is that the army may need to be refreshed, ie rest in the city and rush a few more units while they recover.

hi ,

every city should be looked at , one case at the time , this way you always get the best results , ....
the counsil should decide , but every city can be different , so every city needs a different solution , ...

have a nice day

	19-06-2002 23:18									#23
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No. If the Military Advisor wanted to be the city planner, he should have ran for... city planner.

	19-06-2002 23:40									#24
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I think the smc acting as military governor of occupied cities is appropriate for a limited amount of time during and after resistance(5 turns). I do however, think that any actions that will cause loss of citizens should be apporoved by the president.(even though some loss of citizens is inevitable during these liberation times)

	20-06-2002 00:05									#25
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I sniff Hawk Party business here. *shiver*
Cultural and intellectual citizens, be careful here...

	20-06-2002 23:50									#26
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I'd say that immediatly after occupation, the city should be considerd "under marshall law."

The SMC has total authority to do whatever is necessary to suppress resistance, protect the troops, ensure border expansion, etc. It is the military's job to turn over (to the cityu planners) the burnt, empty husk of a town only after the city has been fuly "docilized"... say 5 turns after resistance has ended.

Then the city planners can work thier wonders.

Looking at it this way.... Can you imagine trying to building a temple, library in the middle of a combat zone?

Let the military finish the job.

My 2 cents...

MSS

	21-06-2002 00:37									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor As the one responsible of happiness, it is the city planner's job. The job of the military advisor would be to move his units in his newly captured cities, so that they resplenish health, and to petition the city planner to build units in the core cities. That's called teamwork, and that's the core of the Democracy Game. There is no reason the military advisor has any direct control over cities... Do you imagine the science minister having direct control over some units ?

I do not think that happiness is what we are looking at here. We are looking at a DIRECT THREAT TO THE MILITARY if the city flips back and we lose units without a fight. As the SMC, it is his responsiblility to assure the safety of his units, and our citizens first. If that means starving a few foriegners, those without the stomach for it can bury their heads in one of the libraries and research some better weapons.

	21-06-2002 04:31									#28
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx I do not think that happiness is what we are looking at here. We are looking at a DIRECT THREAT TO THE MILITARY if the city flips back and we lose units without a fight. As the SMC, it is his responsiblility to assure the safety of his units, and our citizens first. If that means starving a few foriegners, those without the stomach for it can bury their heads in one of the libraries and research some better weapons.

exactly.

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	21-06-2002 06:53									#29
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Control by the SMC for a period of time is highly desirable to maintain control of captured territories and not interfere with front line battles, the SMC should have control until the city has been deemed safe from short term enemy attack.