20-06-2002 04:03									#31
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quote: Yeah...just like you policed up the Balkans on your own. No? Oh that's right...

I'll have you know I beat off the entire Serbian army with a wet comb and a deep fried mars bar supper.

I was thinking more along the lines of fighting epidemics and poverty, not testing new missiles on whichever dictator is flavour of the month.

	20-06-2002 04:04									#32
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Who are you protecting Europe from these days, GP?

Nobody. It's kind of wierd how they still look to the US for leadership while criticising us though. Reminds me of that Onion story...

I meean if they really want to be independant, they shouldn't spend so much time and psychic energy trying to look for hypocracy (like a teenager questioning a parent.) I could give a **** about that kind of crap with my parents after I moved out at age 18. They're people...I just tak em at that and ditcht the childish attitude of looking for perfection...

	20-06-2002 04:04									#33
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Sandman,

I like Europe's committment to foreign aid.

	20-06-2002 04:04									#34
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I was talking about an hypothetical incident that could very well have happened. We almost collided with a Russian sub for example. We were supposedly protecting our country from nuclear attack. What if after the collision we didn't rescue all or any of the crew because of the necessary secrecy?

	20-06-2002 04:05									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman I was thinking more along the lines of fighting epidemics and poverty,

We aren't withdrawing from that though.

	20-06-2002 04:07									#36
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quote: I was talking about an hypothetical incident that could very well have happened. We almost collided with a Russian sub for example. We were supposedly protecting our country from nuclear attack. What if after the collision we didn't rescue all or any of the crew because of the necessary secrecy?

Ain't prosecutable. There is nothing that says you have to save the lives of your enemy soldiers. There is nothing about enemy soldiers, except you can't directly kill them after they've surrendered. You don't have to pick them up out of the water.

	20-06-2002 04:07									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman I'll have you know I beat off the entire Serbian army with a wet comb and a deep fried mars bar supper. I was thinking more along the lines of fighting epidemics and poverty, not testing new missiles on whichever dictator is flavour of the month.

Yeah for that, you drag us in while *****ing at us at the same time. or you sure yoou all are not one of my ex-gfs?

	20-06-2002 04:07									#38
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quote: We aren't withdrawing from that though.

We do a pitiful amount of it though. Less than 1% of our budget.

	20-06-2002 04:08									#39
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Well they weren't really "enemy" because it was a cold war. And in peace time it is necessary under international law to help a ship in distress.

	20-06-2002 04:08									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I was talking about an hypothetical incident that could very well have happened. We almost collided with a Russian sub for example. We were supposedly protecting our country from nuclear attack. What if after the collision we didn't rescue all or any of the crew because of the necessary secrecy? Ain't prosecutable. There is nothing that says you have to save the lives of your enemy soldiers. There is nothing about enemy soldiers, except you can't directly kill them after they've surrendered. You don't have to pick them up out of the water.

go read up on some admiralty law. you're way off base. This is one of the oldest and riches aprts of "international law", young wannabe shyster.

	20-06-2002 04:10									#41
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quote: go read up on some admiralty law. you're way off base. This is one of the oldest and riches aprts of "international law", young wannabe shyster.

And go read the Rome Statute . You are a way off base!

The ICC can't prosecute on 'International Law'. Just crimes in times of war, crimes against humanity, etc. Read up on things before you comment, GP.

And Lincoln, doesn't matter.

	20-06-2002 04:10									#42
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quote: They also fear U.S. officials and soldiers could be subject to political prosecutions, which Europeans say is unlikely.

Since when was this a bad thing? This is one of the most hypocritical self-centered things any country has ever done (well, i take that back, there are many worse things, but you get the idea)

	20-06-2002 04:12									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: We aren't withdrawing from that though. We do a pitiful amount of it though. Less than 1% of our budget.

1. Well...so what. It's not a wolrd socialism yet.

2. we are a force for peace an normalcy (ave me all the individial nitpicks). If we weren't around the world would be a lot rougher in plenty of places. This was especially true during the cold War. Less so now.

3. International Agencies do a lousy job with aid. It goes to socialistic regimes and results in terrible makerowrk fiascos and in weapons purchases. Read The Ugly American. You will learn something about foreign aid.

	20-06-2002 04:13									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui We do a pitiful amount of it though. Less than 1% of our budget.

And? He was acting like we were withdrawing from the UN entirely.

	20-06-2002 04:15									#45
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We should do more! Africa isn't going to solve the AIDS crisis itself. To get away with funds being misused, we should go in ourselves and help. Educate people on safe sex (never happen with conservative Republicans in power though). So what if the world would be rougher if we didn't go around? Some places we made things worse. That doesn't absolve us.

	20-06-2002 04:15									#46
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Unfortunately, it's just the usual way many American leaders see international relations.

They want the United States to run the world, but they do not want any responsibility when they make mistakes, or commit deliberate crimes.

	20-06-2002 04:15									#47
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Existing law would make it very easy for the court to take action against a military vessel that didn't give aid to sailors that it had put in the water. Go read up Imran.

"There is nothing that says" my sweet ass...you little cheap debater.

	20-06-2002 04:18									#48
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i don't want the US to run the world...I don't want the world interfiering with our sovereignty either.

9Does that make me an isolationist?)

	20-06-2002 04:19									#49
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quote: Existing law would make it very easy for the court to take action against a military vessel that didn't give aid to sailors that it had put in the water. Go read up Imran.

Quote me part of the Rome Statute that says Admiralty Law must be followed. Go ahead, do it. And a military vessel that didn't take action wouldn't be systematic violator of Crimes against Humanity or War Crimes .

All it adds up to is that you haven't read the Rome Statute, and you just don't care. Just want to throw scare tactics around and make the US isolationist.

	20-06-2002 04:22									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui We should do more!

Like this?

	20-06-2002 04:25									#51
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There is a long tradtion of requiring mariners to assist those in distress, Imran. Go read up on this area and you may feeel different.

	20-06-2002 04:25									#52
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Decent start, but $500 million? Um... perhaps he doesn't realize how big a problem AIDS is in Africa?

	20-06-2002 04:26									#53
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quote: There is a long tradtion of requiring mariners to assist those in distress, Imran. Go read up on this area and you may feeel different.

Now can you tell me where it is in the Rome Statute? Stop evading the question and put your money where you mouth is. The ICC is based on the Rome Statute. Quote for me the section where it says the ICC can prosecute for that (which isn't a War Crime or a Crime against Humanity, and definetly ISN'T systematic or repeated).

	20-06-2002 04:27									#54
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You are talking about creating a huge quagmire Imran. In the heat of battle a lot of things can be considered war crimes by any pompus court who may have an axe to grind with another nation. And what does "systematic" mean -- 3, 4, 12 times? The point is that while the court is deciding what is and what is not a "war crime" or "systematic" the defendant sits in jail.

	20-06-2002 04:35									#55
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quote: I like Europe's committment to foreign aid.

I wouldn't call it a commitment. The EU is essentially a farming cartel with 'other interests'. Abolishing the farming subsidies would help much more than aid. Cut down the immigrants risking death as well.

	20-06-2002 04:47									#56
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quote: In the heat of battle a lot of things can be considered war crimes by any pompus court who may have an axe to grind with another nation.

Axe to grind... I hear this a lot. Another scare tactic. I see no proof this will ever happen.

	20-06-2002 04:54									#57
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You are more trusting than I am then.

	20-06-2002 05:04									#58
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How much larger is the chance of this court being used for wrong, political reasons than is the chance of the US using force for wrong, political reasons?

In other words, do y'all think your **** don't stink?

	20-06-2002 05:05									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Another scare tactic. I see no proof this will ever happen.

Expect the worst, hope for the best. It save you from a Pollyannish mind set such as this.

	20-06-2002 05:16									#60
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Anyone else envisioning that record executive guy from the "Chef Aid" episode of South Park?

"I AM ABOVE THE LAW!"

As far as international diplomacy goes, our administration is really screwing the pooch.